[kj] (OT) Police Brutality part 2

[sade1]

> So let me get this right- the fact that I disagree with violence and destructive behaviour is simply 

> me thinking what the Establishment *wants* me to think?



I wouldn't say as much, but it was more of how you dismissed further taking into account a legitimate position/grievance once someone in the protests crosses the wrong line**. By that logic then all authority present at those protests becomes illegal and illegitimate since the authorities' forces didn't just cross a line or break a window or two, but instead blatantly and crassly killed someone (among other things).  Now, according to the above stated premise**,that would indeed justify some serious action in response and defense against such deligitimized "authority." 

How about violence that crosses the line of propriety and is turned inward - when right now people kill themselves by the hundreds or thousands, for ex. - should we ignore that or dismiss their grievance because they - oops! - crossed a line, and acted out "wrongly"? Should we point fingers and pass judgment now or should we instead deal the real question of "Why..?" 

I don't think you're pro-Establishment, and I did find myself slowly but surely giving your comments a deserved "benefit of the doubt," but, that said, the tone of what you did originally write came across a bit biased in favor of the authorities. It may have been the ommission (in your comments) of the other side's context - at least as compared to how much and how emphatic you mentioned a more anti-crazyprotesters' stance. 




... ... ... ... ... ... 

[looking at the current state of things..]
 
'Save me...
  save me from Tomorrow..
    I don't want to sail in this Ship Of Fools...'   





________________________________
From: Jim Harper <jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:08:36 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) Police Brutality part 2


So let me get this right- the fact that I disagree with violence and destructive behaviour is simply me thinking what the Establishment *wants* me to think?

I always though it was a part of my near-total dislike of violence and destruction in any form. Well, now I know better. I'm just a tool of the establishment.

I doubt you read that part of the message, but I'm also firmly against police brutality and firmly in favour of people's right to protest. Guess that's also me just thinking what 'the establishment' wants me to think.

I think you should probably get to know me a little better before you dismiss me as an establishment drone, thanks.

Jim.


--- On Fri, 17/4/09, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:

Spectacularly irrelevant…in which case it’s worked. Focussing on that angle, which the establishment wants you to do (hence the police tactics to encourage that kind of behaviour, the press focussing on it rather than the majority of peaceful protestors or their concerns, which are widely parodied as being chaotic and multitudinous therefore somehow irrelevant) works, and the real issues aren’t debated. 
 
Why focus on that? I don’t get it. Everyone agrees that it’s daft and detracts from any legitimate message, it’s unfair to property owners and dangerous etc. 
  

________________________________

From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of Jim Harper
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 12:20
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) Police Brutality part 2 
  
I didn't raise any objection to the protests. 
 
My objection was to people who think it's okay to go on a rampage of rioting, looting and trashing. I don't really care what the occasion is. It's pointless, violent behaviour that does a great deal of damage (and yes, the money is important, 'big picture' or not) and if anything only harms whatever beneficial or serious intent the peaceful protesters might have.
 
In terms of my point, the banks crisis is spectacularly irrelevant.
 
Jim.

--- On Fri, 17/4/09, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:

From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) Police Brutality part 2
To: "'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'" <gathering at misera.net>
Date: Friday, 17 April, 2009, 3:09 AM 
It’s a trivial amount of money, why focus on it? Is that your only counter argument to the protests? Do you think the pigs corralling the protesters up, assaulting people who are sitting down etc, killing people with their hands in their pockets, does anything to calm the crowds? 
  
I’m not suggesting it’s fair for those people whose property is destroyed, but in the big picture it’s more of a distraction. And yes, you can come back and say well it’s not a distraction to those people…but that’s not my point. Big picture. 
  

________________________________

From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of Jim Harper
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 11:59
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] (OT) Police Brutality part 2 
  
It doesn't put that argument into perspective, I'm afraid, because it's not particularly relevant to my point. Or are you try to suggest that rioting and looting are okay because the damage is done is far less that the amount lost in this financial crisis?
 
Most people can't afford to have their shops looted and trashed, regardless of how much money the banks have pissed away.
 
--- On Fri, 17/4/09, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:
 
Hundreds of thousands of pounds…not to be too sarcastic, but have you any idea the damage the govt and banks have caused? Trillions…that puts that argument in perspective.  
  
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