[kj] o/t Please sign the petition - it's too late

[Brendan Quinn]

Have you analysed that paragraph, I did quickly and it seems to me to be
logically flawed.

If you're free of violence in yourself...the question is...when you ask such
a question you are not living peacefully...

Unless what you're saying is that being free of violence in yourself is
equivalent to not living a peaceful life...?

Living without adequate skills to handle violence is to my mind, living in
such a way as to not be able to handle your environment, because the
environment contains violence. I know that could be construed as a circular
argument, with no way for the race to ever develop outside of that pattern,
but that's only a crude picture, it's not the full story.

Tonight *synchronicity* I drove over to my folks place to visit my dying
father of all things...a group of five knobs outside were fighting, well two
of them were (or pissing around about it with the stupid macho posturing
thing). Went on for 10 mins till the cops turned up....this is with
rush-hour traffic (yes NZ has rushhour traffic ;) going past. Not the nicest
of neighbourhoods, although it's not too bad.

Analysing the situation, the natural instinct NOT to fight (the same
instinct which causes animals to display and posture to avoid potential
injury through fully committed fighting) is at odds with the group peer
pressure to prove yourself...hence two guys fluffing around for 10 mins
without anything particularly serious happening. It's interesting, in this
situation you watch someone's feet...sometimes they walk on the spot,
because of the conflicting desire NOT to fight vs the egging on and
expectation that they should fight. Motive forwards and motive backwards,
what's a thug to do...The motherfucking moonwalk!

I think we're on the same wavelength and perhaps debating at cross purposes
or something, seeing as you train people to fight and I did Jiu jitsu up
until the point where my joints were too damaged....but walking away from a
jiu jitsu class I never felt more peaceful, at least when my training
partners and instructors were good cnuts, which most of the time they were.
The ability to defend myself only made it less likely to ever take the bait
and get into a fight...it's never happened since starting, except once in
total self defence, vs a drunk mate of all things. I'm just wary of dropping
that response entirely because, well as a male it's completely hard-wired
for me to defend myself and others, I got picked on plenty as a kid and I
learned to 'turn the other cheek' the Christian way which didn't work.

To be brutally honest...I don't condone the death penalty, for anything to
do with OTHER people...but if something like what Jon raised happened to a
loved one...I'm honest enough to say, different story. The times I have the
biggest problem holding back retributive violent urges are in situations
where a vulnerable family member or friend has been harmed. I've been
punched in the face repeatedly (the above situation) and still told my mate
to bugger off home, until it got silly...but my little bro got seriously
hurt at jiu jitsu class by his thick mate and I was furious. It's just
instinct.



-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On
Behalf Of iPat
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2007 10:51 p.m.
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] o/t Please sign the petition - it's too late

in my inbox today:
Are you questioning violence in you?

Is this problem of violence out there or here? Do you want to solve
the problem in the outside world or are you questioning violence
itself as it is in you? If you are free of violence in yourself the
question is, 'How am I to live in a world full of violence,
acquisitiveness, greed, envy, brutality? Will I not be destroyed?'
That is the inevitable question which is invariably asked. When you
ask such a question it seems to me you are not actually living
peacefully. If you live peacefully you will have no problem at all.

On Dec 19, 2007 9:14 AM, bongo <humanhybrid666 at gmail.com> wrote:

> mr bq soundgardener!

>

> i fully admire your ability to express yourself with the written word,

_______________________________________________
Gathering mailing list
Gathering at misera.net
http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.4/1189 - Release Date: 18/12/2007
9:40 p.m.