[kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

[jo]

Hissssss Per:-))  Don't you know that it's Pantomime Season over here?





> I didn't sign up for this - this list is for debate - not simple  

> contradictions!

> 

> 

> 18 dec 2007 kl. 18.11 skrev jo:

> 

>> Oooh yes it is!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>> No it's not!

>>>

>>> ----- Original Message ----

>>> From: jo <jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk>

>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)  

>>> <gathering at misera.net>

>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:46:07 AM

>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>

>>>

>>> A debate is an argument.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>>>

>>>> I thought it more a debate !  Oh well, now I know better.

>>>>

>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

>>>> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Rob's Arse

>>>> Sent: 18 December 2007 14:13

>>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>>> My personal reaction would be entirely different I am sure.

>>>>

>>>> But if justice has not been done, then it is the judical system that

>>> is

>>>> wrong. Not the offenders.

>>>> What these boys did was hideous but each one of us should ask Are we

>>> the

>>>> same person we were when we were 10 years old?

>>>>

>>>> I know I am not. I know I have learnt a great deal and am  

>>>> thankful to

>>> my

>>>> parents, family amd community for making me who I am.

>>>>

>>>> If we do not forgive and accept wrong doing and the changes in

>>> people,

>>>> then how can we expect society to move on?

>>>>

>>>> An example of forgiveness - Nelson Mandella.

>>>> Convicted terrorist who instigated the use of violence in South

>>> Africa.

>>>>

>>>> Now I'm not comparing them for their crimes but using this as an

>>> example

>>>> of forgiveness, change and understanding.

>>>>

>>>> People change. These boys committed a crime, were given a sentence

>>> and

>>>> served it.

>>>> If that is not acceptable, let's change the system so that it does

>>> not

>>>> happen again.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

>>>>

>>>> --- pmdavies at gmail.com wrote:

>>>>

>>>> From: iPat <pmdavies at gmail.com>

>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

>>>> <gathering at misera.net>

>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:12:23 +0000

>>>>

>>>> i can agree with you, but you are missing my point.

>>>>

>>>> its not about mr and mrs bulger dealing with their grief or wanting

>>>> punishment is it. Its the people who attatch themselves to that and

>>>> demand these things.

>>>>

>>>> Ade, i simply said why i wouldnt sign the petition, if you cant

>>> handle

>>>> that then thats your issue but doesnt mean i should not be part of

>>> the

>>>> debate.

>>>>

>>>> idealistic? who knows, but as you know im trained in various  

>>>> forms of

>>>> fighting from bare hands to weapons. If anyone attcks me or my

>>> familly

>>>> i will use those skills to serve the purpose. Thats personal

>>>> responsibility. I dont surrender my destiny to the state or others.

>>>> Nor though will i wallow in someone elses grief like people crowding

>>>> round a road crash.

>>>>

>>>> the concept of Justice is a based on what? the law? The morality of

>>>> Judea-Chritianity? im quite happy that these two will be monitored,

>>>> its not right what they did, but if there is no redemption you  

>>>> may as

>>>> well hand over the keys to the fascists who say they can identify in

>>>> primary school who is going to be the bad ones. Lock them up in

>>>> Guantamano Bay stylee and use the Bulger case as the justification

>>> and

>>>> those of the poulation drip fed on tv shows will feel that they

>>> really

>>>> are alive.

>>>>

>>>> You feed my son heroin and he dies then be aware ill knock on your

>>>> door someday. Doesnt mean i want some jackbooted devient to do it on

>>>> my behalf just to satisfy their impotence.

>>>>

>>>> On Dec 18, 2007 12:24 PM, ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>>>>> I disagree with yours & iPat's comments because they seem to factor

>>> out

>>>>> the original victim(s) completely.

>>>>>

>>>>> Why on earth wouldn't a mother kill to protect her young? If you

>>> can't

>>>>> grasp that, then it might be worth staying out of the debate.

>>>>>

>>>>> These replies seem very 'cold'. We'll never get rid of murder, so

>>> don't

>>>>> you think you're both being a little idealistic?

>>>>>

>>>>> iPat - idiots will always use something like this as an excuse to

>>>>> play-up. I'm not for vigilante's or chavs roaming the streets

>>> setting

>>>>> fire to paediatricians houses because they can't spell paedo!

>>>>>

>>>>> The reality is that there's a big emotional element to this, which

>>> needs

>>>>> to be factored in - you have to have a grasp of how the victims'

>>> families

>>>>> are affected (lives destroyed). Do they not count? If they don't,

>>> then

>>>>> NOBODY gets justice.

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>>>>

>>>>

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