[kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

[Steve Hackett]

Behind you!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jo" <jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk>
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 
<gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late



> Hissssss Per:-))  Don't you know that it's Pantomime Season over here?

>

>

>

>

>> I didn't sign up for this - this list is for debate - not simple 

>> contradictions!

>>

>>

>> 18 dec 2007 kl. 18.11 skrev jo:

>>

>>> Oooh yes it is!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> No it's not!

>>>>

>>>> ----- Original Message ----

>>>> From: jo <jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk>

>>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 

>>>> <gathering at misera.net>

>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:46:07 AM

>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> A debate is an argument.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>>>>

>>>>> I thought it more a debate !  Oh well, now I know better.

>>>>>

>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

>>>>> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Rob's Arse

>>>>> Sent: 18 December 2007 14:13

>>>>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>>>> My personal reaction would be entirely different I am sure.

>>>>>

>>>>> But if justice has not been done, then it is the judical system that

>>>> is

>>>>> wrong. Not the offenders.

>>>>> What these boys did was hideous but each one of us should ask Are we

>>>> the

>>>>> same person we were when we were 10 years old?

>>>>>

>>>>> I know I am not. I know I have learnt a great deal and am  thankful to

>>>> my

>>>>> parents, family amd community for making me who I am.

>>>>>

>>>>> If we do not forgive and accept wrong doing and the changes in

>>>> people,

>>>>> then how can we expect society to move on?

>>>>>

>>>>> An example of forgiveness - Nelson Mandella.

>>>>> Convicted terrorist who instigated the use of violence in South

>>>> Africa.

>>>>>

>>>>> Now I'm not comparing them for their crimes but using this as an

>>>> example

>>>>> of forgiveness, change and understanding.

>>>>>

>>>>> People change. These boys committed a crime, were given a sentence

>>>> and

>>>>> served it.

>>>>> If that is not acceptable, let's change the system so that it does

>>>> not

>>>>> happen again.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

>>>>>

>>>>> --- pmdavies at gmail.com wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> From: iPat <pmdavies at gmail.com>

>>>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

>>>>> <gathering at misera.net>

>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>>>> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:12:23 +0000

>>>>>

>>>>> i can agree with you, but you are missing my point.

>>>>>

>>>>> its not about mr and mrs bulger dealing with their grief or wanting

>>>>> punishment is it. Its the people who attatch themselves to that and

>>>>> demand these things.

>>>>>

>>>>> Ade, i simply said why i wouldnt sign the petition, if you cant

>>>> handle

>>>>> that then thats your issue but doesnt mean i should not be part of

>>>> the

>>>>> debate.

>>>>>

>>>>> idealistic? who knows, but as you know im trained in various  forms of

>>>>> fighting from bare hands to weapons. If anyone attcks me or my

>>>> familly

>>>>> i will use those skills to serve the purpose. Thats personal

>>>>> responsibility. I dont surrender my destiny to the state or others.

>>>>> Nor though will i wallow in someone elses grief like people crowding

>>>>> round a road crash.

>>>>>

>>>>> the concept of Justice is a based on what? the law? The morality of

>>>>> Judea-Chritianity? im quite happy that these two will be monitored,

>>>>> its not right what they did, but if there is no redemption you  may as

>>>>> well hand over the keys to the fascists who say they can identify in

>>>>> primary school who is going to be the bad ones. Lock them up in

>>>>> Guantamano Bay stylee and use the Bulger case as the justification

>>>> and

>>>>> those of the poulation drip fed on tv shows will feel that they

>>>> really

>>>>> are alive.

>>>>>

>>>>> You feed my son heroin and he dies then be aware ill knock on your

>>>>> door someday. Doesnt mean i want some jackbooted devient to do it on

>>>>> my behalf just to satisfy their impotence.

>>>>>

>>>>> On Dec 18, 2007 12:24 PM, ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>>>>>> I disagree with yours & iPat's comments because they seem to factor

>>>> out

>>>>>> the original victim(s) completely.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Why on earth wouldn't a mother kill to protect her young? If you

>>>> can't

>>>>>> grasp that, then it might be worth staying out of the debate.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> These replies seem very 'cold'. We'll never get rid of murder, so

>>>> don't

>>>>>> you think you're both being a little idealistic?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> iPat - idiots will always use something like this as an excuse to

>>>>>> play-up. I'm not for vigilante's or chavs roaming the streets

>>>> setting

>>>>>> fire to paediatricians houses because they can't spell paedo!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The reality is that there's a big emotional element to this, which

>>>> needs

>>>>>> to be factored in - you have to have a grasp of how the victims'

>>>> families

>>>>>> are affected (lives destroyed). Do they not count? If they don't,

>>>> then

>>>>>> NOBODY gets justice.

>>>>> _______________________________________________

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>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

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