[kj] (OT) Iran/USA/Nuclear Weapons
god botherer
acroastic at hotmail.com
Mon Mar 13 19:38:45 EST 2006
I do not suggest that corporations who produce GM crops intend to bring
about starvation. Corporations have no morality; their only aim is to
maximise profits. But I don't know if I can be bothered to keep joining the
dots for you.
You've thrown Iran into the mix now. I repeat: I am not a seer or a prophet.
There are many seemingly insoluble problems on this planet. You ask me what
should be done, and presumably if I can't tell you what should be done, that
proves a point does it? Let's take a step back. Why is it taken as read that
it is incumbent upon someone to do something?
This does connect up wiith what follows, so please read this as a whole.
I am not happy that nuclear weapons exist at all, but they do. I'm not happy
that my country has them, but, then again, if we didn't would we be more
vulnerable? (We'll leave aside here the fact that we don't really have
control over these weapons; a foreign nation does. That's another
conversation.)
If Iran had nuclear weapons though, do you honestly believe they would try
to wipe out Israel? They would no more do that than either the USA or the
USSR ever did. Who are you, I or anybody else to tell Iran they can't have
these weapons when other countries do, including the country that has
identified them as part of an axis of evil, has already attacked and
occupied its neighbour, and has actually used nuclear weapons in warfare
(and used many other nasties too).
The sad fact is that the Israel problem, the Iraq problem, and many other
problems are at least partly the result of historic meddling by the British
and the Americans.
Often the meddling is under the pretext of 'we should do something'. That's
how it is sold. The real motive for the meddling is, however, imperialism,
contol of markets and control of resources (like, say, ooh, I don't know,
oil perhaps).
I am wondering where you're coming from if you don't recognise this clearly
identifiable trend occurring again and again throughout history, right up to
the present day.
I have sympathy with the poor sods around the world who have suffered at the
hands of my country and the USA. Have you no idea of the anger felt around
the world? Have you no idea of the reasons for that anger?
Incidentally, whatever success in terms of democracy, civil liberties and
human rights (all now in decline) was achieved in this Britain came after
bitter civil war, religious persecution and class struggle over a long
period. But this painful process was allowed to continue with a minimum of
interference from other, more powerful states.
If there had been an equivalent of today's USA in the 16th to 19th
centuries, we'd have been invaded (for our own good) and fucked over again
and again. We'd never have progressed in any way, and even now we'd be
producing plenty of terrorists of our own.
Perhaps we'd be trying to develop our own nuclear weapons too.
I'm going to bed now.
Good night
gb
>From: "FLIGHT BRINGER" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
><gathering at misera.net>
>To: gathering at misera.net
>Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) /GM crops/Iran
>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:46:31 +0000
>
>Western Governments spend Billions of ££E's giving aid to Third world
>countries, its a massive operation to keep the World fed. Why would anyone
>produce GM crops which will add to starvation? If theres not enough food to
>go around now, why would Western Governments make the burden even bigger by
>introducing GM crops? Do you think its so we can have a Live aid every so
>often?
> OK , forget Iraq, that is all in the past (well, and present, but
>nevermind) how would you handle the forthcoming Iran problem? If you were
>George Bush what would you do?
> Iran wants to produce materials which can create Nuclear Bombs. Iran has
>refused Russia's offer of these materials and wants to produce its own in
>private. Iran has vowed to wipe Israel off the map. Israel will not sit
>back and watch Iran build nuclear capabilities.
> What is the solution? How would you handle the situation without the
>benefit of hindsight?
>
>
>>From: "god botherer" <acroastic at hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>><gathering at misera.net>
>>To: gathering at misera.net
>>Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) ID cards/GM crops/Iraq
>>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 23:28:39 +0000
>>
>>Just to address one of many points you raise about my original message,
>>tests have shown that GM crops are ten times more likely to
>>cross-pollinate than normal crops. If you are an organic farmer working
>>land adjacent to a GM farmer you might as well give up, because like it or
>>not you'll eventually end up with GM crops; moreover GM crops with sterile
>>seeds.
>>
>>In fact you needn't be adjacent. The wind, bees, etc. will ensure that
>>crops at a great distance will be affected.
>>
>>Unfortunately weeds are also transmuted and become immune to normal
>>pesticides. So, far from reducing the use of pesticides, GM crops
>>dramatically increase the need for incredibly strong pesticides with all
>>that this entails.
>>
>>I wouldn't view things any differently in the absence of a KJ lyric sheet.
>>
>>I'm not a seer or a prophet. It's not difficult to assess the
>>possibilities if you are aware. I'm not saying all these things will come
>>to pass. They won't if enough people are both aware and active.
>>
>>Unfortunately, a great many people live in a Fool's Paradise. Nations and
>>societies sleepwalk into disaster by small steps.
>>
>>I didn't need to be a visionary to see what a foolish move the invasion of
>>Iraq would be. I didn't need to be able to see into the future to
>>recognise that many innocent children would die, that tensions within the
>>country would be ratcheted up, that the country would become a magnet for
>>all sorts of anti-Western factions, that Muslims worldwide would be made
>>more sceptical, that this would only increase the threat of terrorism,
>>that many fine young men in the British and American armies would die
>>futile deaths, etc. etc.
>>
>>Many things are entirely predictable.
>>
>>Let's hope you're right though, and that the central authority will
>>continue to be the elected government. Mmmmm.
>>
>>gb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "FLIGHT BRINGER" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
>>>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
>>><gathering at misera.net>
>>>To: gathering at misera.net
>>>Subject: RE: [kj] (OT) ID cards/control
>>>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:29:16 +0000
>>>
>>>>The situation we are moving towards is one where all possible data is
>>>>held on each individual, including their political dissent, etc. In
>>>>addition, samples of your DNA will be held by the central authority -
>>>>just think of the possibilities there. Each individual's movements and
>>>>location at any time will be able to be tracked.
>>>
>>>***********They can have all the data they want on me, I have nothing to
>>>hide. I would be pleased if everybody in the UK had a DNA sample stored
>>>in a huge data bank, There will be no anonyminity for the murderers,
>>>rapists and bombers. *****************
>>>
>>>
>>>>Eventually the cards would be replaced by implants and who knows what
>>>>the technological limitations of those could be?
>>>**********How do you know this. Have you been reading the lyric sheet
>>>again? We shall deal with the implant issue if and when it
>>>arises.*************
>>>
>>>
>>>>The central authority will be multinational and composed of an elite who
>>>>own the lion's share of the wealth.
>>>***********The central authority will continue to be the elected
>>>government******
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any organised resistance to the status quo would be nigh-on impossible.
>>>>Doubtless, opponents of the Nazis in their day would have been branded
>>>>extremists.
>>>********Can you see into the future? You seem to be making predictions
>>>and using these predictions as if they were actual
>>>facts********************
>>>
>>>
>>>>The basic right to save seeds to plant for the following year's crop
>>>>will be taken away, since the GM crops, made with sterile seeds, will
>>>>overwhelm the non GM crops. If people are unable or unwilling to pay the
>>>>military/industrial/state rulers for new seeds, or are prohibited from
>>>>doing so, the only option will be starvation.
>>>
>>>******GM crops will grow alongside normal crops. Governments have failed
>>>miserably in trying to stop the growth of Heroin, Cocaine and Marihuana,
>>>what makes you think that they will be able to stop people growing plants
>>>that produce seed?************
>>>
>>>
>>>>When the whole system collapses, as even this one must eventually, death
>>>>will already have been bred into organic life on earth. The future of
>>>>the planet will look even less rosy.
>>>*******These cards will safe guard the future, these cards will stop the
>>>system from collapsing . These cards will stop people whose goal it is to
>>>make the system collapse****
>>>
>>>
>>>This is no longer a paranoid projection of a distant future, but a
>>>>simple conclusion concerning a development that is well under way before
>>>>your very eyes.
>>>
>>>********They are just introducing I.D cards which many other countries
>>>have .You are over reacting ******
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Sun/Mail readers are 'educated' to lend their support with the 'if
>>>>you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear' argument, and the
>>>>control of immigration and terrorism arguments.
>>>*********So how will it affect people who have nothing to hide and do not
>>>want society bought down and replaced by an alien force? What about the
>>>majority who are happy living in the status quo and who dont want change?
>>>Why should they be concerned?*****
>>>
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>>
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