[kj] OT: Are we still talking about Evanescence here?

Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:34:28 -0000

 all the letter below says " Im an atheist",You only need three words,ross


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross O'Donoghue" <donoghue@superonline.com>
To: <gathering@misera.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Are we still talking about Evanescence here?


> Just a couple of points.....
> 1. I think we should probably leave off getting excited about Peter West
> now, as the whole thing was obviously quite a leg-pull.. and some of us at
> least have twigged who was probably behind it. As usual, some are too dull
> to get the joke....
> 2. AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED (thought I would try capitals, as this phrase
is
> obviously otherwise invisible to some eyes) the whole notion of
'tolerance'
> has to do with living and letting others live, and not that much to do
with
> the peculiar notions of the few thought-police hanging around here who
seem
> inordinately concerned that we think the 'right' things. I happen to carry
> around a whole bag of rather unwholesome prejudices, and I frankly doubt
if
> there are many of us who have thoroughly exorcised these ....I despise all
> forms of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and rarely have much time for
> their adherents. I also hate the falseness of the term 'Xtian' - why fly
in
> the face of history and obscure an intelligible term with a silly
neologism
> that adds nothing? Or is the 'x' a kiss for a man betrayed by one?
> I find most queers extremely dull and irritating company, and would like
to
> see all the modest head-scarved women of Islam and their cloistered
> Christian counterparts stripped naked, horsewhipped and gang-raped by
herds
> of goats in public. I won't even get started on the Jews....( I find most
> Buddhists amiable fools, and have little beef with Hindus)
> BUT....THE POINT IS......FREEDOM &TOLERANCE ( on my terms, of course) are
> the ONLY social principles worth having, and they encompass all others. I
> would be the first to take up arms and leap into the trenches in defence
of
> the rights of any of the above-mentioned  pains-in-the-fecking-arse to
> continue to add to my existential discomfort. This doesn't actually
require
> that I like any of them. (Jacques Chirac should be shot).
> So, now, take it easy : we're not the same.
> Ye have been warned!
> Ross.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: culture.virus <culturevirus@mindspring.com>
> To: <vassifer@earthlink.net>
> Cc: <gathering@misera.net>
> Sent: 20 Aralık 2003 Cumartesi 21:53
> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Are we still talking about Evanescence here?
>
>
> >
> > At 08:42 PM 12/19/03, Alex wrote:
> >
> > >Okay, here we go....
> > >
> > >"Alex, do you not see your own hypocrisy?"
> > >
> > >No, but I *DO* see a big middle finger pointed right at YOU!
> >
> > I thought you might not.
> >
> >
> > >"You and many others on the Gathering have blasted Peter for his
> statements
> > >about the 'sword of Islam' and then you turn around and paint all Xian
> > >musician's art as moot simply
> > >because of their religious beliefs?"
> > >
> > >You may notice, I wrote: "1. They're Christians, which renders their
> music
> > >instantly moot, as far as I'm concerned." There is a *HUGE* difference
> > >between
> > >decrying an entire faith as zombified zealots sworn to the abject
> destruction
> > >of all non-believers and expressing the opinion that "Christian Rock"
> > >sucks so
> > >bad that it's not even worth discussing...once again, AS FAR AS I'M
> CONCERNED.
> >
> > I agree that there is BIG difference of scale. Nor was I implying that
you
> > have decried Xians as a whole. That being said you have made a
prejudicial
> > statement when you say "They're Christians, which renders their music
> > instantly moot, as far as I'm concerned." You have prejudged all
endeavors
> > at music by Xians to be of such a nature as to "suck a giant bag of
greasy
> > dicks."
> >
> > >  Peter was talking about warfare, I was discussing entertainment. Does
> > >expressing my disdain for Evanescence's music mean that I think all
> > >Christians are
> > >the enemy? No, but it means I think their weak -ass attempts at rock
suck
> > >giant
> > >bag of greasy dicks.
> > >
> > >"Bruce Cockburn is a Xian is his body of work moot?"
> > >
> > >I've never been a fan
> >
> > Nor am I a "fan" but it's obvious that his work in the singer/songwriter
> > subgenre of rock is of very high stature.
> >
> >
> > >"What about Dylan?"
> > >
> > >I've *NEVER* been a fan of Bob Dylan
> >
> > Maybe, but that doesn't undermine the "fact" that his work is legendary.
> > Not to mention the fact that his Xian era works were probably among the
> > most musically complex of his entire career.
> >
> >
> > >*What about any number of classical composers?"
> > >
> > >That's not Rock.
> > >
> > >"And what about reggae?"
> > >
> > >That's not Christian, and technically, that's not rock either.
> >
> > AFAIC all modern music owes a good deal of it's roots to the blues and
> > therefore rock as well. Reggae is a post rock and roll genre.
> >
> >
> > >"Is it all moot because of their religious beliefs?"
> > >
> > >I never said that. My point was that Christian Rock sucks...a statement
> I'll
> > >stand behind.
> >
> > So is it only Xian attempts at pop/rock that are automatically bereft of
> > musical value? You don't even have to hear it, it just automatically
> sucks.
> > Do you ever stop and wonder why right leaning people in the US accuse
the
> > left leaning of being elitist?
> >
> >
> > >"After all a great deal of reggae is overtly religious in it's lyrical
> > >content."
> > >
> > >True, but that's reggae.
> > >
> > >"Does Cat Stevens automatically suck because of his allegiance to
Allah?"
> > >
> > >Did I ever suggest as much?
> >
> > So is it only Xian attempts at pop/rock that are automatically bereft of
> > musical value?
> >
> >
> > >"Do Live automatically suck because of the Buddhist slant?"
> > >
> > >No, they automatically suck BECAUSE THEY'RE LIVE!!!!!
> >
> > So is it only Xian attempts at pop/rock that are automatically bereft of
> > musical value?
> >
> >
> > >" When are you and the other members of this list going to see that
> you're as
> > >prejudiced and hateful as the people you condemn?"
> > >
> > >Number one, I'm not PRE-JUDGING Evanescence. I've had the TREMENDOUS
> > >MISFORTUNE of hearing their music....thus, my judgement of them is
based
> > >on the
> > >evidence, not on preconceptions.
> >
> > No you're not prejudging Evanescence, you're prejudging all acknowledged
> > Xian Rock as sucking. In fact if I stripped your statement out of it's
> > original context you stated that any music by a Xian is moot. You don't
> see
> > that as being prejudicial? So as I tried to say before the list, you
> > included, were slagging Peter for the trait of prejudice, a trait most
of
> > us see as a negative. IMO you are protraying the trait of prejudice in
> your
> > stance because you don't automatically despise the output of people who
> are
> > of other faiths, only Xians. Therefore by displaying prejudice, and
since
> > it would appear you view prejudice as a negative trait, you are in fact
> > hypocritical.
> >
> > Now most people, yourself included, might say that this is a minor
issue,
> > we're only talking about entertainment. But anyone observing this list
> from
> > the outside would see that we hold popular music in high esteem. We
value
> > it not only for it's artisitic qualities but for it's potential to
impact
> > popular thinking and change society as we know it. So to automatically
> > write off an individual artists output solely because of their faith is
to
> > not only limit your own listening choices, but it says something about
how
> > you view Xians as a whole if you are so willing to write off their
> artistic
> > endeavors in a media that you hold in very high esteem.
> >
> > >Moreover, after fourteen years of Catholic
> > >education, I feel no qualms about speaking out about a faith I was
raised
> > >within.
> >
> > And after another 20 years you haven't matured enough to stop thumbing
> your
> > nose at a strawman? You should really be discussing this with your
parents
> > and possibly a professional counselor. You're obviously horribly
scarred.
> >
> >
> > >" BTW I'm no fan of Evanescence either."
> > >
> > >How nice for you.
> > >
> > >Alex in NYC
> > >reply to home e-mail: vassifer@earthlink.net
> >
> > I am culturevirus
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gathering mailing list
> > Gathering@misera.net
> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gathering mailing list
> Gathering@misera.net
> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering