[kj] Killing Joke Speak To SonicAbuse (SonicAbuse)

Paul dubecho at gmail.com
Fri Dec 14 14:04:32 EST 2018


*Killing Joke Speak To SonicAbuse*
December 14, 2018

Most interviews follow a fairly set formula. There’s usually a new album or
a tour to promote and the band are often media-primed with a number of
elements that they want to get across. With Killing Joke, that all goes out
the window. Although ostensibly here to discuss the Killing Joke 40th
tour, Jaz Coleman, the band’s enigmatic lead singer, has much to say and
only occasionally is it music-related – or at least in the commonly
accepted sense. A courteous host, Jaz greets us warmly enough, but he has a
piercing gaze that appears to look right into you and it’s clear from the
outset that he will speak on his terms alone.

At first, I wasn’t sure how to present this interview. It’s *long* and it
covers a huge amount of ground, much of which is controversial. However,
Killing Joke has never stood for censorship, and Jaz’s digressions,
although often seemingly tangential to the band we’re here to discuss, are
so central to the core of what makes Killing Joke tick  that they are
related in full. Similarly, elements where Jaz turned the tables and
started to interview our photographer, Jola, have been left intact as they
provided additional depth to the points Jaz wished to make. Not everyone
will wish to wade through all this – I understand that – but to read the
interview is to gain valuable insight into the myriad contradictions that
fuel the icy rage of Killing Joke’s recorded output.

On a final note, there are numerous links scattered through the text which
both support Jaz’s claims and, where relevant, question them. They are
there for those readers who wish to dig deeper into the ideas Jaz espouses,
to critically evaluate them and to come to their own conclusions.

Photo: Jola Stiles

The first question, really, is to do with the idea that you’re celebrating
your fortieth anniversary and you’re in a fairly unique position, because,
where most bands would be concentrating on the hits, you had one of your
most successful albums with *Pylon* back in 2015. How do you feel, as an
artistic entity, you’ve kept the band evolving and moving over so lengthy a
period of time?

*I think that great art doesn’t come from being comfortable. It comes from
dissonance and dissatisfaction, and it’s not easy to be in that state.*

*Look at the world now – one in five people suffer from depression. In
America, like in this country, most people are two pay cheques away from
homelessness. You know, it’s a scary situation in the world now.
Geopolitically, we’re closer to annihilation than we’ve ever been in the
history of mankind and, you know, what can I say? Human beings are losing
their humanity as well as their ability and cognitive functions. Their
retentive memories are becoming damaged with these modern forms of
communication. I don’t like any of it. So, you can see that, to be
intelligent in the twenty-first century… the disparity between rich and
poor is so great, if you feel nothing, you must be a fucking psychopath. We
feel a lot. Especially at this stage in life. We see that people are
enjoying less freedom than ever before. We live in a culture of ‘Full
Spectrum Dominance’ and if you don’t know what that means, it means that
our current military outlook; from NATO and the West; is that the enemy of
tomorrow is the population – it’s people. It’s people. People are the
enemy. So, the air is sprayed…Full Spectrum Dominance means using weather
as a force multiplier (quote unquote).*

*We have so much metal in our bodies and we’re all connected to the
internet via powerful magnetic signals. We’re becoming crystalline. We’re
walking antennae and none of us can be sure whether our thoughts are our
own thoughts anymore, or whether they’re beamed into us, such is the
technology we have nowadays. There is the technology out there… there’s so
much Nano-technology in your body that we can switch your inner organs off
if you’re a naughty boy. This is what Full Spectrum Dominance means. It
means, if you have an activist or trouble maker, it means we can literally
torture them or kill them. We can switch them off. This is the world we
have gone into, whereas when we started our career, there were 200,000
people protesting nuclear weapons in Trafalgar Square. You’d be lucky if
you had fifty these days. With biometrics in everybody… they’re frightened
about losing their jobs and frightened about speaking out against evil –
that’s the worst thing of all. Everyone has started self-censoring since
the Snowden revelations. We have artificial intelligence that can recognise
voice stress and identify you… we’re living in horrific times. Most people,
they don’t want to know what’s going on, but still, we open ourselves to it
and we use a violent art as a way of processing the horrors… the horrors of
this world.*

It’s an amazing art, but also cathartic… it felt like the early Killing
Joke was a studied isolation and a separation form what was occurring, but
now it feels like there’s more of a direct challenge…

*I don’t think we’ve changed our outlook one bit… from my position. Look at
the songs on any album and they basically address the problems of the age
in which we were living.*

So, age itself has dictated… it feels (to me) that there’s a more visceral
flex of the muscle on *Pylon*, so I wondered if the urgency of the problems
that exist have changed the nature of the music…

*Well… it’s coming to a head now. Something’s going to happen in your
lifetime. We are all very surprised that it didn’t happen in ours. But, for
example, these NATO war exercises in Norway *[read more here
<https://www.euronews.com/2018/10/30/nato-war-exercises-in-norway>]*, they
are not defensive. At all. They are offensive.*

 *You know. It’s going to affect you. Your body is saturated with
Nano-technology… saturated with it. It moves alive inside you and it’s
activated by electro-magnetic frequencies. They call these non-lethal
weapons. The sky is visibly different from when we started our career. They
are spraying us. It’s called High Altitude Ionic Aerosol *[read more on
this here
as well as a counter study, here]
<https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/chemtrails-conspiracy-theory>**They are
spraying us. The skies – the ionosphere – is being sprayed, regularly. You
know, on a cold day, in winter, you can see your breath in front of you.
The thing is, contrails are only formed at extremely high altitudes. What
you’re seeing in the skies is a mixture of barium and sixteen other
components. I think the powers that be have seen that we live in the sixth
extinction period and we have to change the human body to accommodate the
horrific changes that are coming. How do you do your field tests? You have
to do them on humans. They are changing the human genome. They are
literally changing it by spraying us. You think this is some ridiculous
conspiracy theory. It’s not. It’s very real.*

Photo: Jola Stiles

*You want to have a look at Morgellons’ Disease
<https://www.healthline.com/health/morgellons-disease#symptoms>. There are
people with fibres coming out of their body and these fibres – you put them
under the microscope and they have symbols on them – you know. Something’s
very, very wrong. There’s no real democracy. Democracy… they’re calling
this the ‘post-democratic period’. It’s gone – democracy. You have a deep
state and it doesn’t matter what party gets in. They engineer it, so that
it remains the same. By not having an opinion on this, you are endorsing
it, because silence gives consent.*

*My father used to… you know, you have to bear in mind that all of us in
Killing Joke were born in the shadow of the last war. It was fifteen years
before we were born. When we started the band, the French were still using
the guillotine. Yeah. So, we are hard-wired to speak out against fascism.
The Germans and the concentration camps. You now know they are spraying us,
they’re breaking the Geneva convention. You know that – what are you going
to do about it after seeing it all? Will you study the chemtrail phenomena?
Will you look at what it means to have an ionised planet? That’s what
they’re doing. They’re ionising the planet. We’re breeding in
Nano-technologies that are literally changing our bodies. Crimes against
humanity are being done on a vast scale. I was talking with Big Paul; you
have to remember that Big Paul is about sixty now; and in all our lives
we’ve never seen it so bad as now.*

There is no question that we’re seeing changes further and faster in the
political sphere than we ever have before in my lifetime…

*Listen, the people who print the money – unless you understand about the
central banks, you can forget all about politics because it’s much lower
down. The central banks basically call the shots in this world. They are
the capital. The people who print the money. If you don’t know about
the Federal Reserve Act of 1913
<https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/fract.htm> in America, or the
role of the central banks, then you don’t know anything and there’s no
point in even talking about democracy. Because they are the super-rich: the
people who print the money; they are the people who decide which
politicians get into power. You’ve heard of Bilderberg
you’ve heard of all these… You’ve heard of Bilderberg before? *[I nod] *Well,
the politicians are chosen, they’re just salesmen now. You know. The future
elitism is masonic.*

Do you find it remarkable that there seems to be so few artists and bands
engaged in confrontation now?

*They’re frightened!*

You think it’s fear…

*Yeah sure, because you die. If you speak out…*

It’s become harder… or impossible for artists…

*I think, not just artists… since the Snowden revelations, everyone is
frightened of speaking what is on their mind because the thing is
artificial intelligence can identify the stress in your voice. It’s not
people doing it, it’s AI.*

But you still engage in confrontation…

*It’s different for me… I’m completely mad!*

There is that…

I read an interview with you, when you were out touring *Pylon*, which
struck me as a little bit contradictory because you said that you found it
difficult to speak on politics because you don’t vote…

*I’ve never voted. For example, I wouldn’t even bother with the British
system, because I don’t live here so it’s not my right.*

You live in New Zealand I think…


 So, you’ve never voted – is that a conscious decision not to engage with
what you’ve already said is something that’s at a lower level to the banks…

 *Well, I’ve been almost press-ganged into politics at times in my life and
I’ve basically said no. Not in this country.*

 But you do engage with the United Nations…

*I work for the UN.*

In what role?

*Spiritually – I work with the Lucis Trust <https://www.lucistrust.org/>.
I’ve just done the music for the UN – the ceremonial music.*

As a global governance body… is that problematic?

*Let’s be clear about this. United Nations. There’re two schools of thought
on the United Nations. There are those who believe in the New World Order
and the UN can fulfil that role. Then, there are those people who believe
the United Nations is exactly what it says it is – it’s a council of
nations. I am of the second group. What we are learning through populism is
that the best people to look after a given area is the indigenous people of
that area and that’s what I really believe. Look, I’m Anglo-Asian, OK? My
mother and father (my father’s white, my mother’s part Asian), they brought
us up under British culture. So, we didn’t erode the host-culture which was
ostensibly British in terms of culturally and domicile – newspapers and
whatever. The problem is – when you introduce other cultures into a host
culture, you erode the culture that’s there. You don’t even know what an
English rhythm is, or an English folk song. You don’t know what it is to be
English at all – the English traditions, they’re all gone.*

Under United Nations – that sort of cross-pollination is encouraged isn’t

*It’s the last possibility we have, where warring tribes can sort their
differences out. It’s the last possibility we have. Hmm – that’s it.*

So, it’s a forum…

*I’ve always seen it this way.*

Photo: Jola Stiles

So, that’s the contrast between the United Nations and the “European Super

*I’m pro-European myself. Just because of the lessons of the last war. I
think… not just the last war. You need to travel extensively through
Russia, China, America to understand what Europe really is and why it needs
to be protected and why I’d like to see it strong. But, the Europe I
envisage does not incorporate NATO. It’s an ideal more than anything else
and the Europe I always dreamed of, never, ever included the United
Kingdom. So, the guys in the band, we’re all pro-Europe. That being said,
most people who voted for Brexit, wanted to throw a spanner in the works of
globalism and I can understand that too.*

 It worries me that Trump is a strong anti-globaliser.

*It doesn’t really matter about Trump because the Deep State, which is the
Pentagon and the geo-political strategy of America, it’s still being run by
neo-conservatives. You know, they promised Gorbachev they would not expand
NATO – they have expanded NATO. We’re getting ready to take over the world
(the West), you know, by controlling the weather, by spraying the air. By
basically pushing countries into debt and taking away all their wealth.
Giving them loans – the IMF and the rest of it. It’s being done, it’s one
big global takeover. You know TPP – the Trans-Pacific Partnership
agreement. These were thirty-five chapters of trade agreements that no-one
was allowed to see. You’d never be able to take any corporation to court
after this – you’d never be able to sue any corporation after this huge
‘trade deal’. But it’s not a trade deal – it’s a takeover. Once you take
over a country’s food and water supplies, basically you’ve taken over that
country. If you corporatize everything, then you have the corporations
controlling everything and that’s the state we’re in. If that’s OK with
you, well then, those are your views. The other alternative is to put your
life on the line and be prepared to die for an alternative. Silence gives

It seems there’s a deafening silence from the artistic community…

*Nothing. I don’t see any that are speaking out…*


*I don’t wish to speak ill of anyone…*

 Do you see Killing Joke returning with another record to challenge what
has emerged subsequently – you mentioned populism; we’ve had the election
of Trump…

*Are you asking me, are we going to do another record? The answer is yes
but, you know, when I leave this tour at the end of this month and go away
to the other side of the world, there’s no way of being sure I’m going to
make it back these days. The flash points are so many. I was discussing it
with Big Paul, we’ve never seen in a time like this. In the Cold War there
was always a hotline between East and West. It’s so much more complex now;
there are so many more flash points. So much more chance and opportunity
for the law of unforeseen consequences to take hold. This is the problem

*I work in Russia…*

Yes – your classical work…

*Yeah, the Russians just see the West as aggressive and they’re right, they
are. And we’re part of it. We’re right in the middle of it. I don’t know
what to say about it. This country’s so close with America, whatever
America does and whatever war it gets into (and remember, America
has initiated 30 wars since the last World War
30 – we’re in bed with them, which is why I left this country and why I
don’t really care for NATO. I don’t like the way it’s going.*

Yet you still engage as an artist…

*I will always speak out and I will always play until my body is in the

You mentioned you’re spiritually involved with the UN, but I’ve always seen
Killing Joke as dealing with spirituality as metaphor rather than religion
as dogma…

*Let me be clear about this. I want to see the end of the patristic
religions of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. I want to see the end of
them. They worship a dark god. The god of the old testament – the jealous
god that demands blood sacrifice; that tells you to kill every man, woman
and child. We have to look at these forms and ask: what is it that we’re
invoking? And so, I believe in the restoration of the ancient mysteries and
you can take that as you will.*

*It means that I have interesting bedfellows sometimes.*

Photo: Jola Stiles

So, how does that play into your role in the UN?

*I don’t have any problem holding two contradictory beliefs at all… which
is to say that the United Nations can be a force for good or it can be used
as an oppressive force. I don’t believe that it’s got to the latter yet and
I believe there are some really good people in the UN that believe in world
peace. I would be very frightened of not having a United Nations – what
would become of us?*

It certainly *has been *a force for good and it grew out of
well-intentioned (I believe) ideals…

*Well-intentioned, but ineffective… My reach in the UN is to do with the
arts because I find no political solution for anything.*

But the arts are, by their nature, political. As you said, the decision to
be silent is as potent, for an artist, as the decision to speak out, even
if only in the absence of an opinion…

*Look, you know, in Times Square in New York city, there was a great big
Billboard and it said on it “Did you know that a third tower fell on 9/11?”
and it had World Trade Centre 7 there. Most people don’t know this. World
Trade 7 wasn’t hit by any plane. It free-fell in 5.2 seconds. It turned to
dust. That means that 64 steel columns turned to dust, all at the same
time, and it fell into its own footprint in 5.2 seconds. It wasn’t even in
the 9/11 report *[you can find considerable detail, both in support and in
opposition to these views, in the following links: Building7
<https://rememberbuilding7.org/> False Flag claim
<https://www.gaia.com/article/911-false-flag>, counter-claim

*It’s rotten.*

*That was the big push to create the New World Order. That was it. It was
manufactured. The whole thing was. And I speak out, because nobody else
will. I will always speak out about it. I accuse Cheney, Rumsfeld,
Rockefellers. The mainstream media… I accuse all these people and more. I
accuse Tony Blair, I accuse the BBC – they’re all complicit in this…
murder. It’s genocide. This false flag. All of them are complicit. When I
think of the Joint Chiefs of Staff – the defence of the United Kingdom and
America, all these people are spraying and doing terrible things to people
– they should be tried. I think Tony Blair is a war criminal. When I see
people like… well, let’s say other artists… cosying up to Blair, I don’t
know what to say.*

*Bill Gates is another disgusting human being. He said, quote unquote, Bill
Gates “if we do a really good job on vaccines, we’ll lower the world’s
population by 10-15%” How should we take this? *[You can read more on Bill
Gates’ vaccine comments here

And yet it seems that as an artist, it seems increasingly difficult to get
your voice heard?

*I don’t really care! You honestly think I really give a fuck about my
career at this stage in my life? You know? *[laughs] *I don’t really care!
I’m going to do it anyway!*

 Would you like to see a groundswell of artistic voice joining you in what
you say? Do you believe that it *could* still make a difference, or are the
forces aligned against it too great?

*Of course it could make a difference. I don’t think you’d like to hear the
kind of changes I envisage…*

 Actually, I’m very curious!

*Well, as they’ve got artificial intelligence that is supposed to read your
mind these days, they should be very worried about my thoughts because…
well, you know, I don’t know what to say about the state of the world at
the moment. I’m going back to New Zealand and I’m preparing for World War
III. I don’t know whether there’ll be a next year. I don’t know how it’s
going to go here. Things are moving so fast. There’s a resource war going
on – the Antarctic and the Arctic– it’s to do with supplies well into the
twenty-first century. To add to this complexity, we have to look at
‘disclosure’ also… You know what disclosure means?*

As in the disclosure of sensitive information?

*No, I don’t mean that. Disclosure means something quite specific.
Specific. I suggest you start with looking at all the way through, from the
beginning to the end, of the Disclosure Project to understand what I’m
talking about. The disclosure Project, to keep it brief, was like three
hundred top military scientists who got together at the Washington Press
Club and started speaking together, under oath, about what they knew about
the UFO situation.*


 *Disclosure that everything you’ve been taught is a lie. That all your
notions of history. Everything. Is a lie. You’re notions of religion.
Everything is worthless. This is disclosure. And that, we possibly have
been augmented by another race at some point in our past and that we’ve had
interaction with off-world visitors for some time. The curve, the
ascendency of technology is due to our interaction with other races. It’s
not our own initiative. And, the time that we’re living in now, we’re
waking up to who we really are. Some people call it the Crowned Conquering
Child because we are like children awakening to the cosmos of who we really
are. Yeah. It’s a dark time, but I do believe that it will lead… we will
eventually make a golden age. I do think this will happen eventually.*

[Archived information on the Disclosure project can be found here
<http://www.disclosureproject.org/>; current information is here

Photo: Jola Stiles

Is there a turning point for that? That seems like a very optimistic belief
off the back of that?

*Oh no, that’s after pole-shifting cataclysm. I’m not talking any time
period. I’m talking about the long term. A million Years is nothing. It’s a
second. Yeah. And I… I think, as I’m of Eastern DNA, I think in terms of
reincarnation too. These ideas are very real to me. You know, it’s hard for
me to express this to somebody from the West, but reincarnation is very
real. We recycle. We do. It’s real. Consciousness survives death. That’s
also true. The physicists have proved it. My brother is a famous
physicist *[Piers
Coleman – author of *Introduction to many body physics*, 2015] *and he
studied with Joseph Cern and they’ve written a theory. The physicists say
that consciousness survives death. It’s probably a greater argument than
any religion can have for the existence of the soul. I mean, when I met all
the guys in the band, I recognised them immediately. We’ve reincarnated.
All of us. We did a ritual to recognise them, when we started this band, to
find the other two in the band and we did within two weeks and here we are,
forty years later.*

 As a functioning, and yet strangely apposite unit, because I believe the
way the band works is a democracy in opposition…

*It is! It is… probably the only true democracy left in the world. And it’s
hard to find consensus, but we manage it.*

And somehow, that democracy and the musical authenticity that comes with
that is part of the reason for longevity, because few bands make such a
career out of confrontation.

*Well, they give up. We don’t. We don’t. We keep marching.*

And always will…

*Yeah! That’s right. As long as this body’s working, I’m going for it. It’s
been a great tour. It’s been an awesome tour. I’ve switched off all
communication with all media and everything and the only people I get any
information form is people like you. People. Talking to people.*

It’s amazing how social media dominates people now. People exist in a…

*Bubble. Yeah. Our reality is changing.*

 It scares the hell out of me. It’s a great way to get the website shared.
But as people we don’t…

Jola: I haven’t watched TV for like ten years…


Jola: I don’t need that, really.

[To Jola]: *Why do you live in this country?*

Jola: Why? Because this country gives a lot of opportunities for people to
do all sorts of things which they don’t need to do because they have to,
but they have choice and they can do in life things that they enjoy… and

*Right… and you can’t do this in Poland?*

Jola: Not yet, I don’t think so. I was lucky, in Poland, I did things that
I liked, but in here, I can do more, which is not just job, but my hobbies.

*That’s good. The goal of life is to do what you love in life and get paid
for it, so that you never have to work.*

 Jola: It’s important because it’s eight hours every day of my life, and I
spend it with people that I like and doing things that I like – which makes
me happy.

*Well, the tea is good and the sense of humour is great in this country,
but the weather sucks… and you’re welcome to it. And I have no time for the
establishment here, or the royal family for that matter.*

 Jola: There’s a lot of things that maybe aren’t great, but I think that
young people… not only young people… can do a lot and it’s just amazing
that so many things happen around here. And English people sometimes don’t
take that opportunity and I don’t understand why because I think life is
short and if you can do something then you should do this…

*You can do many things in a life. I’ve had many lives in this life. You
know. I’ve managed to do many things. By the time I was sixteen, I had four
criminal offences; I also was a very successful classical musician. You can
do lots of things in a life. Anything that I’ve dreamt of, I’ve done. From
being an architect to conducting an orchestra… whatever I want… to author a
book. I’ve had no further education. I’m completely self-taught on every
level, but I’ve worked with the greatest orchestras in the world. And I’ve
been lucky. It’s all possible. It’s all doable. I’ve made three buildings
now and I didn’t go to architecture school.*

It seems that ambition is more important… and particularly now it seems
that ambitions is being crushed in favour of…

Jola: …apathy

*Oh, it’s easy to get depressed and not motivated. Physical exercise is
very important, to energise you, to fight depression. I can do incredible
things with my body; I’m actually quite a strong person.*

Lugging amps around the stage will help with that…

*We’ve never carried our own equipment!*

Right from the start?

*Right from that start, yeah! You need to get your mates round to
rehearsals. We did. Everyone came with us. All the people hanging around
rehearsal were putting the gear out.*

>From the very start there was the will…

*Willpower is important, yeah. It’s very important. I mean… I see people
who are so talented, but they have no willpower. It’s difficult. You get in
life what you put up with shit, that’s what you’re going to get. I mean, I
don’t put up with shit. I’m a fucking horrible piece of work mate. You
know, progress depends, not on reasonable people, but on unreasonable

 …and anger, and confrontation?

*Well, if necessary. You know, there’s a thin line between that and
self-respect. Hopefully it doesn’t come to conflict, but you have to
respect yourself, hmmm, and what we’re doing. Yeah. You know, all I can
think about every day is, when this tour is finished, I’m going as far away
from human beings as possible and I’ll get to my far, I’ll open the gate
and then I’ll take a piss on the ground like an old tomcat – mark the
territory – then I’ll spend the next twenty-five minutes crossing over the
river and in to my house. I’ll open it up, and get the coffee on.*

Photo: Jola Stiles

It sounds like you have a very isolated and very free place…

*From there, I live… you know, in the Pacific and the rest of my life I’m
going to live out of a van. I’m going to go through South America, Bolivia,
and each country for a few months and move on. It’s going to be like this.
And then fly back when I’ve got duties to do – and that’s how it will be. I
mean, I don’t really have like massive assets, but what I do have is
mobility – the ability to go “hey! Why don’t we fuck off there for a year?”
I like this. I like this mobility. It’s hard, though, because… let’s just
take the idea of partners. With this nomadic life, you can’t really date
someone who’s got a job *[laughs] *you know, you have to be with other
crazy people. So, yeah… I don’t know whether… I hope we’ll make it to the
next Killing Joke Tour but who knows if we’ll be there. You can’t be
certain these days. These war games they’re doing. They’re so vast; so
massive. Something smells bad. I’ll see my mother after this tour. I’ll see
her for a couple of days and that’ll be my Christmas and I don’t know
whether I’ll see her again. I don’t know. When I leave the Northern
Hemisphere, I don’t know if I’ll see anyone again. It’s so… everything is
so uncertain.*

We talk about this… but, like most people, I guess we focus on ourselves
and think about our immediate concerns like Brexit and the potential break
up of Europe, but there is lots to worry about.

*Well, I think, for the New Year, my focus will be on what I call ‘paradise
now’. That’s where I say to the gatherers “we’re going to do three days in
the Azores fishing, followed by fish and chips!” These kind of events.
These have meaning for me. And when I’m on tour with Killing Joke, people
like yourself and other gatherers, normally around the sound check time is
the time we meet up with people and it’s been fantastic on this tour, right
the way through to South America. The top of America right the way to the
bottom of South America, and it’s been fantastic. Fantastic.*

So, it remains the case, that Killing Joke is about making *human*

*Sure it is. We’re doing a tour of India next year, and we’re going back to
America and South America again. So, you know, the fortieth celebrations
are really for next year, not this year, but Paul and I got together in
’78. We didn’t put our first record out until ’79 but next year will be the
focus of the fortieth anniversary – this is just a warm-up.*

That’s huge…

*Yeah. Well, I’d like to do about four times the amount of concerts that we
do. Personally. I love it. It’s hard on the body – doing this every night.
I’ve never done five nights in a row; one day off; five nights in a row…
but I have on this tour. You know, it’s been hard. But I like the
challenge. It’s the second today, right? Yeah – from the 17th onwards.
Summer time’s coming… not for you *[laughs] *I can’t deal with the winters

 It’s going to be even colder for us because we’re spending Christmas in

*Have some good Borsch and Bison Vodka!*

So, you only conduct in Russia in the summer months?

*No! No, I love the winter in Russia. I always like to be busy when I’m in
Russia. I only go there to work. I’m largely pro-Russian in my outlook. I
think that, you know, Russia is protecting its own interests and I’m
sympathetic to that. I don’t like everything in Russia, but they want
Russian oligarchs, not American ones running their country *[laughs] *and
they’ve got every right to do that. America’s an oligarchy – we know this.
Jimmy Carter said this. He should know. It’s incredible isn’t it, when you
think that it was only six years before I was born that Slavery was
officially ended by the UN. It was only eight years before I was born that
they ended… the witchcraft repeal act. You could be tried for witchcraft up
until 1952. We haven’t crawled out of the slime yet but, you know,
civilisation and humanity is at stake. We have to build a new humanity. We
have to learn to love. With these technocrats like Brzezinski and
Kissinger… They refer to the bulk of humanity as “useless eaters”. Well,
that’s one step away from genocide… once you start seeing people as the
enemy. In America, if you do not follow the official narrative of 9/11,
you’re considered a terrorist and as I speak out about these things when I
go to countries like this, I’m being monitored very, very closely.
Sometimes it’s very unpleasant.*

I was wondering if you’d had issues in America…

*Oh yes…*

…because it’s very… invasive, especially after the Patriot Act.

*Look, in this country. The BBC showed World Trade Centre 7. They said it
was going to fall twenty minutes before it collapsed. They’re all in on it.
And *[speaking to Jola]* your country is used as a black site for secret
rendition to torture people
<https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/FS_Secret_detention_ENG.PDF>. We allow
these things to happen. It’s unacceptable. Everyone is too frightened. No,
no, there must be a reckoning. The central bank.. all these people. There
has to be a reckoning. And, all the people we have loved in our ancestors.
Can you imagine the way they feel about the way the world is now?*

I imagine they’d be horrified.

*But they can come to our aid too, to help us rebuild. I don’t know whether
I’ll come back after this time. I don’t know. I think things will change.
The only thing I’m interested in is working with orchestra for the UN and,
when my duties with Killing Joke call me, I will do this also. But that’s
it. That’s it, really. You know, I have a farm. It’s been neglected. My
fear is that I’ll go home and I’ll tell everybody to fuck off! Because I’m
not coming back. I don’t know how I’ll feel. I’m close to that point. It
could go anyway, I’m crazy! I told you. I can explode in a second. Go a
different way. I don’t know how I’ll be, but it’s exciting!” I feel alive

*That’s what I love about playing. Before you go on stage, you feel so
fucking alive! Sometimes I don’t feel it at all. You have to *[clicks
fingers] *get into it. I can turn it on. I can get into it. Again, the
challenge is exciting. We’ll get through this tour and I’ll look at my
colleagues and myself and the first thought I’ll have is that “we are one
fucking hard band!” Eh?! Hard. Tough fuckers – this band. I’m proud of this
too. We are like a hydra-headed beast with a collective age of 240 years
and a collective IQ of in excess of 600. They should fear us. They should
fear us and, if our next album comes, it will be the hardest album we’ve
ever done. God willing. I will make it so. I’ll make it so. The things that
will change before we even get to writing the next album, will be so
horrific… what’s happening now.*

*Full spectrum dominance. You really have to study what it means to
understand how far we are beyond the pale. We’ve crossed the Rubicon. It’s
so far gone… my belief system… if you’ve ever read my book. I believe in
pre-upheaval migration, which is what we’ve been doing since I was in my
early 20s. We’ve been arranging farms – eco-systems – in different places
around the world run by, what you’d call fans I suppose. They’re not fans,
they’re gathering. This’ll be part of our focus too because every city is
three days away from starvation. The minute those cash machines stop
working, you have to eat something. Where are you going to get it from? You
thought about that? There’s no art unless we have full stomachs. Our
primary needs need sorting out first. So, we have to think ahead. In these
poisoned lands. So, what do we live off if everything shuts down. Well, I
was thinking like that in my twenties and it’s going the whole way I
thought. In my twenties, I wouldn’t dream of having children with anyone
other than a rich New Zealander or a rich Swiss lady and that’s exactly
what I did! And now, my children are in countries where I believe they have
the best opportunity. So, the dreams of Killing Joke… Our philosophy has
affected my life. I’ve tried to stick to… what I actually believe in
geopolitically. In the Rosicrucian philosophy, they believe that the
Northern Hemisphere will be largely destroyed and small islands in the
southern hemisphere stand a chance of surviving. Pole shift will come. It
will come. The magnetosphere of every planet in our solar system is
changing and it looks like a prelude to pole shift. When that happens, it
will be like having a carpet with loads of rocks running underneath it.
There’s no such thing as a safe zone, you know. And then, I believe that
there is probably a secret space station and, if there isn’t one, there
should be! Because how are we going to re-seed the planet if there were
not. If I can dream it, then it’s there. It must exist. I think this is
what our friend Gary McKinnon saw when he hacked into NASA
They really wanted him! He started talking about things he shouldn’t have
talked about. Fleet-to-fleet transfers; non-terrestrial officers. You know,
it’s a different world. What’s happened is a segment of our humanity is…
well, we could say the military industrial complex has had access to highly
advanced  vehicles and they’ve back-engineered technologies which they’ve
kept for themselves and we now have a breakaway civilisation that is 200
years ahead of us, but living with us. This is the corporate arena. The
whole UFO thing in the Nixon administration went into the corporate arena.
But these things are very real. Of course, I didn’t really believe in this
kind of thing until seven of us had a bizarre experience in the UFO area,
all together. Seven of us. Yeah. I talk about all of this, openly, in the
Killing Joke movie. There’s no need to go there again. But then, after
this, I had to face the subject myself. It’s very real and it’s difficult
for the ordinary person to embrace.*

*The Rand corporation were commissioned in the 60s to do a study on the
possible outcome of contact with extra-terrestrial civilisations. And they
said that the people who would be affected most would be the scientists and
they advised against disclosure because they didn’t think the people would
embrace it. It’s far easier for them to… look, people like me don’t matter.
I’m completely crazy. My views don’t really matter. I’ve been crazy for a
long time . I don’t suppose my opinion really counts for a great deal. But
these things that I’ve talked about, they’re very real. You know, and it’s
complex because there’s inter-dimensional visitors; there’s different
entities and races… some benevolent, many not. It’s a very complex state of
affairs. It’s too much for the average person. Even one percent of the
population understand the complex issues of the twenty-first century. We’re
even getting Artificial Intelligence to make our decisions for us. The
Large Hadron Collider in Geneva… I mean – they’re trying to bring… when
anti-matter hits matter, matter disintegrates. These people are fucking
insane. The biggest problem ahead of us is people going hungry. War is
connected to mass-starvation. Yeah? We’re right on the brink. We’re looking
into the yawning chasm. All I can think of is that this time… I always knew
I’d have to make the journey to the sanctuaries at some point in my life.
Maybe it’s now. Maybe that time has come. Something’s wrong in the world.
And I think they may be speeding things up because there’re external
problems even greater. You know – threats. It’s hard to know what’s going
on, but, I do have some very good contacts and I know people who know
people at the Pentagon and a lot of people at the Pentagon believe that
starting World War III would bring Jesus closer… *[laughs]

In one sense they might be right! There are a lot of apocalyptic theorists
in American government.

Photo: Jola Stiles

[To Jola] *Did you vote in the recent elections in Poland?*

Jola: No, I didn’t. No. I was here and I didn’t want to and also, I didn’t
have the opportunity to vote for Brexit or not Brexit. It’s a little bit
crazy what’s going on everywhere in my opinion. What’s going on in Poland,
I don’t recognise from when I was there. There’s brainwashing on TV. When I
was visiting my family (I don’t watch TV, but they do) the things that are
said on  TV, I just laugh. How could anyone take it seriously? But they do!
A lot of people believe what they see. So… I don’t know… I hope things will
change for the better. But with Brexit and the situation in Europe, I don’t
know. It’s very divided.

*Very. What a depressing winter it looks like it’s going to be.*

Jola: I hope not. But it depends what will happen. I don’t see anything
good coming out of that.

*No. You know. To add to this problem is the Petro-Yuan. We’ve been trading
the Petro-Dollar for the best part of my life, but that’s changed. Look…
we’re looking at an economic meltdown in the next year / year and a half. A
friend of ours who’s high up in Deutsche Bank… He said that the Euro won’t
survive two years. Well, I can see that we’re even looking at a problem in
the next year in my opinion. Not that it affects people like me. I have so
little that it doesn’t really matter. You know, in the scheme of things…*

It’s hard to imagine things continuing in this way… trade wars; trade blocs
disintegrating and forming…

*America’s debt… it’s hundred-year-old debt… the bonds are owned by China.
They can cash them in at any time. The dollar’s going to go. And some would
rather start World War III than let the Petro-dollar go. We’re there. We’re
at that place. Think the worst and then, umm, think of the possibilities
you have available to you. At best it’s an endgame for most of us. Really.
What else can we do except make sure we have enough to eat and drink and
have a good time. I will carry on with killing joke for the rest of my days
so long as there’s a place to play  and we can travel. Sometimes I’d like
to sit down with Richard Branson and find out what he thinks about how far
and how long it’s going to go on for. He is, after all, a member of the
council for foreign relations, Richard Branson. And a purveyor of rock
music of some part. He’s implicated isn’t he? Yes. There you are. What to
say about the world. What do you tell the children?*

*I want you to look at the whole thing about Nano-technology being inside
our bodies. There’s an institute called the Carnicom Institute
<http://carnicominstitute.org/>** run by professor Carnicom. He has this
test that can show the amount of Nano-technology in your body. It’s quite
easy to do. I want you to research it for me. It shouldn’t be there. It
shouldn’t be in our bodies. It’s invasive. It’s disgusting. It’s against
all laws of decency. *[It should be noted that there are also bodies
dedicated to debunking Carnicom’s work. One such establishment can be found
here <http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm>.]

*I mean, I’m well aware that by doing this interview and by talking about
these things, my life is on the line. I really think that. I really think
that these days. That’s where we are. That’s why there are so few artists
who’ll talk about these things. You have Russell Brand saying he wasn’t
sure about 9/11. He’s back-pedaled. There’re a few people who had doubts
about 9/11 but they’re all too frightened to talk about it now. Well. It
was a fucking false flag – end of story. I mean, 9 of the hijackers are
still alive! This is bullshit! And when they found that Mohammed Atta’s
passport at the site of the collapsed World Trade Centre when they said the
Black Box had turned to vapour, but they found the fucking passport… are
you fucking joking???*

*No one wants to ask questions anymore.*

It’s a difficult. No one want’s to go down that avenue because it’s huge…

*Listen, listen. By not addressing it, we’re no better than the people who
kept quiet about the concentration camps. Yeah. Just bear that in mind.
Science condemns you, you know. The people who just ridicule and say “oh
he’s a conspiracy theorist because of 9/11” No. We’re in good company.
There are a lot of people – politicians and ambassadors for 9/11 truth;
there’s architects for 9/11 truth <https://www.ae911truth.org/>**. We’re in
great company. Pilots for 9/11 truth <http://pilotsfor911truth.org/>… come
on! Until we get this pivotal moment of history and face it head on – what
really happened. We’re going nowhere fast because that’s where it all went
wrong. That’s when the New World Order thing; this culture of full spectrum
dominance… the Patriot Act, as you said, that’s where it started. From
9/11. Something is very wrong about this picture. 9/11 must have been
planned years before. Years before. Way before. During and before the
Clinton administration. It’s a huge operation. Other nations would have
known about it – certainly the UK, certainly Israel possibly Saudi Arabia
as well. They’re all implicated. It stinks. They stink. These people are
morally inferior. They’re scum bags and we should always speak out and
switch me off and kill me off if I don’t. I feel so fucking mad about it
and it’s wrong. The silence makes me sick. People’s silence. You really
have to look at what they’re doing now. The chemtrails; the culture of Full
Spectrum Dominance. It’s so disgusting. We have to fight against it to our
last breath. That’s my last word on all of it.*
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