[kj] Hip Hop, Rap and now Grime was Trump

[Jim Harper]

As far as I've understood, hip-hop is the genre itself, while rapping is simply an element of the whole. The concept of 'Rap music' is basically a holdover from the early days when any song that prominently featured rapping would be labelled 'Rap'. There has been a general swing away from using the term as a genre over the years, largely because hip-hop is no longer dominated by the rapper, with beats, production and various musical aspects rising to prominence.

Of course, establishing what hip-hop is has become largely impossible. Kanye West is technically hip-hop but he's operating in a very different way to earlier acts, whether it's De La Soul or the Wu-Tang Clan. On the other hand, the more experimental artists are having difficulty being acknowledged as hip-hop artists, but I'm with MC Dalek on this point: people like Afrika Bambataa are absolutely essential to the development of hip-hop but they're a million miles from the commercial areas of the genre. If Dalek wants to work with Krautrock legends like Faust, since he's definitely coming from a hip-hop background I'm more than willing to accept him as being a hip-hop artist.

Excuse the ramble!

Jim.

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On Fri, 11/11/16, Paul <dubecho at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [kj] Hip Hop, Rap and now Grime was Trump
 To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
 Date: Friday, 11 November, 2016, 18:55
 
 My
 understanding of it (I could be wrong and often am) is,
 Hip-Hop was more of a culture thing with a few different
 elements to it, MCing, DJing, b-boying and graffiti art.
 Rap would fall under the MCing part and as a result the
 terms Rap and Hip-Hop are both the same thing really.
 Hip-Hop came from out of the Bronx in New York in the early
 70s.
 Grime came out of the
 London, Garage scene, which in turn came out of the Drum
 'n' Bass and Jungle scene, there was also elements
 of dubstep involved. Personally I like it, but then I like
 anything with a good low bass and both Hip-Hop and Grime
 took a lot from dub reggae and toasting.
 Killing Joke have used elements of
 both, the rap I think is best left unmentioned, but Youth
 did a dubstep mix of ESS,
 which I happen to like, but was not very popular with many
 on the list : )
 I'm pretty much the same, in
 that I'll not write off any particular style or genre,
 just because I don't like it, but I really do detest the
 manufactured shite the likes of Louis Walsh and Pete
 Waterman used churn out and is still the main stay of
 current "chart" music. End of the day, each to
 their own and in the context of my kids, I don't think
 any of them could come near the shock and outrage Punk
 caused my parents when my generation decided it was the
 bee's knees lol That is why I think my daughter likes to
 rub the likes of Ed Sheeran, in my face, as she knows he
 upsets me as much as say Crass or the Pistols upset my
 folks.
 
 On 11 November 2016 at
 09:33, Brian Whitehead <bawhitehead at gmail.com>
 wrote:
 Ok
 ok what is Grime? Never even heard of it.
 There is one style of music that
 really I don't get and that is what is what they refer
 to as hip-hop. Whats the difference between hip-hop and
 rap? A lot of the 6 music DJs play the odd track and to me
 it seems totally out of context. Last week I heard what I
 think was a Donna Summer song with a guy talking (rapping)
 over the top. Eh? I'm not going to go down the path of
 "I don't like it so it's crap", it's
 just lost on me. 
 With
 my daughter I'm very aware not to try and force music on
 her, like you I've tried all sorts of music in the car
 just hoping she'll say "what's that, I like
 that". Errrr not a chance.
 The youth of today eh? Wouldn't
 know a good song if it hit them in the face
 :-)
 Brian.
 
 
 On 10 November 2016 at
 22:48, Mike Cooper <mike at coopersurf.fsnet.co.uk>
 wrote:
 Ha ha been there Brian.  My son
 will only listen to Grime despite years of peppering him
 with music in the car etc.  I don’t even totally know
 what Grime is!!  I am not down with it apparently
  From: Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at mise
 ra.net] On Behalf Of Brian Whitehead
 Sent: 10 November 2016 22:40
 To: Gathering <gathering at misera.net>;
 Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
 Subject: Re: [kj]
 Trump Ive
 got a 13 year old daughter. I try and introduce her to
 interesting music but she's not having any of
 it. On 10 Nov 2016 22:13,
 "Alex Smith" <vassifer at earthlink.net>
 wrote:
 Show of hands,
 please -- anyone here have any children? Just out of
 curiosity. Alex in
 NYC
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