[kj] Raven

adrianwason at btinternet.com adrianwason at btinternet.com
Wed Jul 17 00:17:18 EDT 2013


i thought Raven only joined Ministry when the typically chaotic joke couldnt confirm their touring schedule


From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>
To: 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)' <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013, 4:17
Subject: Re: [kj] Raven



There is a clip in the TDARS documentary where Jaz is fuming about Raven pissing off to join Ministry, I can’t remember when, but I gather it threw a spanner in the works at the start of a tour or something.
 
I won’t have the words quite right but it was essentially “if Raven and I see each other again one of us isn’t going to survive the encounter” – I was a bit shocked to be honest. A) never knew there had been a beef between Jaz and Raven, b) 1982 anyone? seems a bit hypocritical, and c) some things are better left off the record, and especially off the filmed record.
 
Ditto for comments he made about:
 
Wanting to shoot people holding onto funds from his classical recordings
The lines at the end of Age of Greed (albeit with the caveat at the start of the next song)
Comments he made in that rant about corporations – could almost be seen as exhorting western suicide bombers
 
My point being…there are some anecdotes from the past such as the 2003 recordings (we’ve got our own clean-up crew on-call), Jaz’s comments about the Big Paul split on XXV Gathering DVD etc – if any of that ended up in court, and the prosecuting lawyer played those comments…I’m no PR expert but I’m guessing wide-eyed premeditated violent intent expressed on camera is a bad thing…
 
Having said that, my impression is that Jaz has had a big change of heart over the years – quitting esoteric fraternities in favour of more spiritual pursuits, relinquishing material possessions and travelling the world with only the clothes on his back etc. He said as much at the TDARS doco, that he finds some of the footage almost unbearable to watch…
 
At the end of the day they came through those situations, got over their differences and moved on (okay it took a few decades ;), despite some nasty incidents and words. Most bands end up never talking to each other again, or constantly slagging each other off…or even worse, getting back together and making shit music. So I think it’s a testament to KJ that they managed to patch things up, move on together successfully, and be honest about what had happened.
 
Hopefully those comments in the XXV Gathering doco about Killing Joke always causing chaos mayhem and violence in a metropolitan-wide radius for all who get involved with them are a thing of the past…ditto with addictions.
 
BQ
 
From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of wessidetempest .
Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013 3:30 a.m.
To: The Gathering
Subject: Re: [kj] Raven
 
I agree with everything you've said.  Ministry is a bad influence on everyone involved and it's pretty well known for the last 2 decades.  Jaz really said nothing that helped him or his cause (whatever it may be at that moment).
It seems that when someone makes a statement like that they are trying to create a juicy, dramatic, tidbit that gets people talking and thus brings them attention.
Maybe it's a back handed way of slagging Ministry. "Al killed Raven".
And I thought Geordie was homeless.  Isn't their "bonus footage" on the Gathering DVD where they are interviewing Jaz on how prior to 2003 Geordie was essentially homeless and how he would never work with Big Paul again.  I watched it somewhere.
I can imagine Geordie and Raven being in limbo states but I found it difficult to imagine Youth in that state.
 
And I criticize Jaz for not stepping up and helping if heroin was truly a problem.  Having stopped using 24 years ago I witnessed many people struggling with trying to help friends and loved ones get off of it.  In some cases people are scared.  Literally.  It's like they are afraid that they will start using themselves if they intervene.  I guess with any addiction if someone is truly at the point of destruction you have to step up.  Even if they get mad.  In the end if they make it out they will thank you for it and you may likely become closer.  Again I am saying this from experience.
 
eh enough of my yacking. Let's boogie
 
Chris
From: rob.moss at gmx.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:04:52 +0200
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Raven
This is really sad to read. I wonder why Jaz felt the need to say that?
Raven did have a dark side but I never saw him do anything stronger than dope and I spent a lot of time with him when he was splitting up with Nova. I'm not convinced at all. 
I do agree that ministry was the end for him though and think that certain people could have done him bigger favours. 
 
Just don't see the benefit in making this statement and feel disappointed. 

On 16 Jul 2013, at 09:28, Were Wolf <werewolf68 at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
I am sure we all still miss Paul Vincent Raven. He was a great Killing Joke bass player.

> 

>I was sad when I read this recently:

> 

>"2003 was probably the darkest period of my life ever and probably everybody in the band, certainly Geordie and Raven. I'm not surprised one of us died actually...Raven and Youth were homeless...Everybody had been through hell by then. Everyone had drug and alcohol problems. There was lots of violence...I had such bad panic attacks. Geordie was not in a good way. Raven was really bad. Not only was he drinking with us but ever since we met Raven, he would flirt with heroin. When he went off with Ministry it was the fucking end of him."

>"When Raven fucked off, I knew he was after something he left in his flat, so I fucking jimmied the window open to find out what Raven was after. He had been up to fucking monkey business in this place. All the tinfoil stuff that smackies use."

> 

>- Jaz 'Vive le Rock' magazine interview May/June 2013 Issue No. 12

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