[kj] Raven

[Brendan Quinn]

There is a clip in the TDARS documentary where Jaz is fuming about Raven
pissing off to join Ministry, I can't remember when, but I gather it threw a
spanner in the works at the start of a tour or something. 

 

I won't have the words quite right but it was essentially "if Raven and I
see each other again one of us isn't going to survive the encounter" - I was
a bit shocked to be honest. A) never knew there had been a beef between Jaz
and Raven, b) 1982 anyone? seems a bit hypocritical, and c) some things are
better left off the record, and especially off the filmed record. 

 

Ditto for comments he made about:

 

Wanting to shoot people holding onto funds from his classical recordings

The lines at the end of Age of Greed (albeit with the caveat at the start of
the next song)

Comments he made in that rant about corporations - could almost be seen as
exhorting western suicide bombers 

 

My point being.there are some anecdotes from the past such as the 2003
recordings (we've got our own clean-up crew on-call), Jaz's comments about
the Big Paul split on XXV Gathering DVD etc - if any of that ended up in
court, and the prosecuting lawyer played those comments.I'm no PR expert but
I'm guessing wide-eyed premeditated violent intent expressed on camera is a
bad thing.

 

Having said that, my impression is that Jaz has had a big change of heart
over the years - quitting esoteric fraternities in favour of more spiritual
pursuits, relinquishing material possessions and travelling the world with
only the clothes on his back etc. He said as much at the TDARS doco, that he
finds some of the footage almost unbearable to watch.

 

At the end of the day they came through those situations, got over their
differences and moved on (okay it took a few decades ;), despite some nasty
incidents and words. Most bands end up never talking to each other again, or
constantly slagging each other off.or even worse, getting back together and
making shit music. So I think it's a testament to KJ that they managed to
patch things up, move on together successfully, and be honest about what had
happened. 

 

Hopefully those comments in the XXV Gathering doco about Killing Joke always
causing chaos mayhem and violence in a metropolitan-wide radius for all who
get involved with them are a thing of the past.ditto with addictions.

 

BQ

 

From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On
Behalf Of wessidetempest .
Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2013 3:30 a.m.
To: The Gathering
Subject: Re: [kj] Raven

 

I agree with everything you've said.  Ministry is a bad influence on
everyone involved and it's pretty well known for the last 2 decades.  Jaz
really said nothing that helped him or his cause (whatever it may be at that
moment).

It seems that when someone makes a statement like that they are trying to
create a juicy, dramatic, tidbit that gets people talking and thus brings
them attention.

Maybe it's a back handed way of slagging Ministry. "Al killed Raven".

And I thought Geordie was homeless.  Isn't their "bonus footage" on the
Gathering DVD where they are interviewing Jaz on how prior to 2003 Geordie
was essentially homeless and how he would never work with Big Paul again.  I
watched it somewhere.

I can imagine Geordie and Raven being in limbo states but I found it
difficult to imagine Youth in that state.

 

And I criticize Jaz for not stepping up and helping if heroin was truly a
problem.  Having stopped using 24 years ago I witnessed many people
struggling with trying to help friends and loved ones get off of it.  In
some cases people are scared.  Literally.  It's like they are afraid that
they will start using themselves if they intervene.  I guess with any
addiction if someone is truly at the point of destruction you have to step
up.  Even if they get mad.  In the end if they make it out they will thank
you for it and you may likely become closer.  Again I am saying this from
experience.

 

eh enough of my yacking. Let's boogie

 

Chris

  _____  

From: rob.moss at gmx.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:04:52 +0200
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Raven

This is really sad to read. I wonder why Jaz felt the need to say that?

Raven did have a dark side but I never saw him do anything stronger than
dope and I spent a lot of time with him when he was splitting up with Nova.
I'm not convinced at all. 

I do agree that ministry was the end for him though and think that certain
people could have done him bigger favours. 

 

Just don't see the benefit in making this statement and feel disappointed. 


On 16 Jul 2013, at 09:28, Were Wolf <werewolf68 at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

I am sure we all still miss Paul Vincent Raven. He was a great Killing Joke
bass player.

 

I was sad when I read this recently:

 

"2003 was probably the darkest period of my life ever and probably everybody
in the band, certainly Geordie and Raven. I'm not surprised one of us died
actually...Raven and Youth were homeless...Everybody had been through hell
by then. Everyone had drug and alcohol problems. There was lots of
violence...I had such bad panic attacks. Geordie was not in a good way.
Raven was really bad. Not only was he drinking with us but ever since we met
Raven, he would flirt with heroin. When he went off with Ministry it was the
fucking end of him."

"When Raven fucked off, I knew he was after something he left in his flat,
so I fucking jimmied the window open to find out what Raven was after. He
had been up to fucking monkey business in this place. All the tinfoil stuff
that smackies use."

 

- Jaz 'Vive le Rock' magazine interview May/June 2013 Issue No. 12

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