[kj] KJ & Spirituality

[Dominico C]

Really? Wow... What a really dreaded outlook to spirituality... Both my 
parents passed away 17 & 20 years ago. I will always look forward to seeing 
them someday up in heaven, and I always know they are watching over me. If 
it weren't for them teaching me how to survive when I was younger, I 
wouldn't have gotten through the odds...



"Sorry, there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to 
believe it, you've got to prove it.The good news is that memories of 
deceased loved ones and friends can live on for your lifetime. My dad died 
over a decade ago and I have memories creep back into my head all the 
time.Just watched a 2 hour special on "Heaven: What is it? How do you get 
there?" on US tv. At least they gave a segment to a scientific explanation 
of people who've had "near death" experiences. THey allclaim to have 
glimpsed heaven--all with DIFFERENT descriptions of it. A doctor who's 
studied this for a decade talked about how the dying brain frist shuts down 
the inhibitory part,and all kinds of meaningful memories, images, ect. flood 
the brain--thus the images of heaven. Other scientists have found 
explanations for the bright light effect too. My impression, afterwatching 
all kinds of brainwashed religious people from all over th world is, that it 
is a deep, psychological way of coping. Back
to the scientists--another thinks that there is even a gene that makes one 
more prone to spirituality. What he chouldn't explain, though, was why 
certain COUNTRIES that are non-religious don't have the same % of people 
w/this gene. Is the gene rare in those countries? Religion is a man=made, 
invented concept w/ no basis in reality. None.
From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk"To: gathering at misera.net

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Subject: Gathering Digest, Vol 109, Issue 11

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The Gathering - Digest

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: KJ & Spirituality (GREG SLAWSON)
   2. KJ & Spirituality (robert best)
   3. Re: KJ & Spirituality (Rob Moss)
   4. Re: KJ & Spirituality (Rob Moss)
   5. Re: KJ & Spirituality (adrianwason at btinternet.com)
   6. Re: KJ & Spirituality (bongo)
   7. Re: Funeral pyre (F Luke)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:40:18 -0400
From: GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W45C6BCA869E03D997DF71CA9ED0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Sorry, there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to 
believe it, you've got to prove it.The good news is that memories of 
deceased loved ones and friends can live on for your lifetime. My dad died 
over a decade ago and I have memories creep back into my head all the 
time.Just watched a 2 hour special on "Heaven: What is it? How do you get 
there?" on US tv. At least they gave a segment to a scientific explanation 
of people who've had "near death" experiences. THey allclaim to have 
glimpsed heaven--all with DIFFERENT descriptions of it. A doctor who's 
studied this for a decade talked about how the dying brain frist shuts down 
the inhibitory part,and all kinds of meaningful memories, images, ect. flood 
the brain--thus the images of heaven. Other scientists have found 
explanations for the bright light effect too. My impression, afterwatching 
all kinds of brainwashed religious people from all over th world is, that it 
is a deep, psychological way of coping. Back
to the scientists--another thinks that there is even a gene that makes one 
more prone to spirituality. What he chouldn't explain, though, was why 
certain COUNTRIES that are non-religious don't have the same % of people 
w/this gene. Is the gene rare in those countries? Religion is a man=made, 
invented concept w/ no basis in reality. None.
From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:56:32 +0100
Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality





I've read that Jaz became a Priest of an Anglican Church in New Zealand a 
few years ago, resigned from 2 out of 4 mystical orders he was a member of, 
and has an interest in Gnosticism. Geordie apparently is a Kabbalah Master 
and Youth is a Druid. Also that Paul Ferguson is not so involved in occult 
practices now, as in the 1980s. I first began to study world religions and 
the esoteric, after getting into KJ after I saw them on BBC TV's Top of the 
Pops and Channel 4's The Tube in 1985. I do believe there is life after 
death in some form. What do other Gatherers think?

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 07:55:04 +0100
From: robert best <www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
To: The Gathering <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <DUB101-W3036C9F6C7167E79E0144198ED0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


On the 'Killing Joke The Gathering' DVD interview with Jaz, he says that God 
does not punish people by sending them to a non-existent 'Hell' ie; "God is 
not so cruel". I do think God/Force whatever you want to call it possibly 
exists, as the Universe is too complex to have come about by chance? Here is 
an interview with Jaz when he was first interested in becoming a 
Priest:http://www.radcyberzine.com/text/interviews/KillingJoke.html
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:34:34 +0100
From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
<gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <4089464B-81F6-4667-891E-324DC4032ABE at gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I can go along with that Greg.
Religion is a coping mechanism for those who have a hole in their lives. 
Rather like drugs or alcohol or food or shopping or whatever.

I heard once that epileptic people are more likely to be religious which is 
an interesting thought. Something to do with how the brain is wired 
differently.

I have no problem with religion and the believing in God if that helps folk. 
But I do reject the organised nonsense, the indoctrination and the evil done 
in the name of God.



On 7 Jul 2012, at 07:40, GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com> wrote:


> Sorry, there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to 

> believe it, you've got to prove it.

> The good news is that memories of deceased loved ones and friends can live 

> on for your lifetime. My dad died over a decade ago and I have memories 

> creep back into my head all the time.

> Just watched a 2 hour special on "Heaven: What is it? How do you get 

> there?" on US tv. At least they gave a segment to a scientific explanation 

> of people who've had "near death" experiences. THey all

> claim to have glimpsed heaven--all with DIFFERENT descriptions of it. A 

> doctor who's studied this for a decade talked about how the dying brain 

> frist shuts down the inhibitory part,

> and all kinds of meaningful memories, images, ect. flood the brain--thus 

> the images of heaven. Other scientists have found explanations for the 

> bright light effect too. My impression, after

> watching all kinds of brainwashed religious people from all over th world 

> is, that it is a deep, psychological way of coping.

> Back to the scientists--another thinks that there is even a gene that 

> makes one more prone to spirituality. What he chouldn't explain, though, 

> was why certain COUNTRIES that are non-religious don't

> have the same % of people w/this gene. Is the gene rare in those 

> countries? Religion is a man=made, invented concept w/ no basis in 

> reality. None.

>

> From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:56:32 +0100

> Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

>

> I've read that Jaz became a Priest of an Anglican Church in New Zealand a 

> few years ago, resigned from 2 out of 4 mystical orders he was a member 

> of, and has an interest in Gnosticism. Geordie apparently is a Kabbalah 

> Master and Youth is a Druid. Also that Paul Ferguson is not so involved in 

> occult practices now, as in the 1980s. I first began to study world 

> religions and the esoteric, after getting into KJ after I saw them on BBC 

> TV's Top of the Pops and Channel 4's The Tube in 1985. I do believe there 

> is life after death in some form. What do other Gatherers think?

>

> _______________________________________________ Gathering mailing list 

> Gathering at misera.net http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 10:40:59 +0100
From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
<gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <1BD7D72F-BCC1-42CE-AEDA-74907A5FB9E7 at gmx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm open minded about a creator. Who the heck knows.
If we are an accident, then it's a rather beautiful one.
If we are an experiment, well, I'm not sure what they make of it.

When we talk about religion, that's different and I go back to Gregs point 
about it being a man made concept.
When they talk about "faith" I can only see a huge hole in the argument. To 
me, faith, is about a belief that something exists. Trusting that it is 
there but not actually knowing. And I need proof.



On 7 Jul 2012, at 07:55, robert best <www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


> On the 'Killing Joke The Gathering' DVD interview with Jaz, he says that 

> God does not punish people by sending them to a non-existent 'Hell' ie; 

> "God is not so cruel". I do think God/Force whatever you want to call it 

> possibly exists, as the Universe is too complex to have come about by 

> chance? Here is an interview with Jaz when he was first interested in 

> becoming a Priest:

> http://www.radcyberzine.com/text/interviews/KillingJoke.html

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:31:32 +0100 (BST)
From: adrianwason at btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke \(the band!\)"
<gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID:
<1341657092.43123.YahooMailNeo at web87405.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



If we are an accident, then it's a rather beautiful 
one...................unless you are Rob Moss!!!!!


________________________________
From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Saturday, 7 July 2012, 10:40
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality


I'm open minded about a creator. Who the heck knows.?
If we are an accident, then it's a rather beautiful one.?
If we are an experiment, well, I'm not sure what they make of it.?

When we talk about religion, that's different and I go back to Gregs point 
about it being a man made concept.?
When they talk about "faith" I can only see a huge hole in the argument. To 
me, faith, is about a belief that something exists. Trusting that it is 
there but not actually knowing. And I need proof.?



On 7 Jul 2012, at 07:55, robert best <www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk> wrote:




>On the 'Killing Joke The Gathering' DVD interview with Jaz, he says that 

>God does not punish people by sending them to a non-existent 'Hell' ie; 

>"God is not so cruel". I do think God/Force whatever you want to call it 

>possibly exists, as the Universe is too complex to have come about by 

>chance? Here is an interview with Jaz when he was first interested in 

>becoming a Priest:

>http://www.radcyberzine.com/text/interviews/KillingJoke.html

_______________________________________________

>Gathering mailing list

>Gathering at misera.net

>http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>

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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:26:31 +1200
From: bongo <humanhybrid666 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kj] KJ & Spirituality
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
<gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID:
<CAJ9w5W7GpE+kuR411_F68s-Nju+TOLizdGrPA53ozBY73c0R_Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

i've had a smoke, so excuse me . . . . . . . . .

=)




      " there is no life after death. No heaven or hell. If you want to
believe it, you've got to prove it."




likewise with your 'belief' that this is it and there is no life after
death - you *cannot* prove it... we are ignorant of our true place in the
scheme of things, but there are clues and truths out there.
one truth- *when you are sincerely selfless and help someone, it feels
good..* and your spirit feels *lighter*.. (en*light*enment?).this is the
same regardless of culture. with observation, this is easily something you
can perceive for yourself.

random rambling...
a forest, over time, is still a forest. trees grow and trees decay, but the
forest is the trees. they become something other than themselves, a greater
identity... that thought doesnt really go anywhere, but an observation..
macrocosm microcosm kinda thing, as above, so below..

another random... what happens to your consciousness when you sleep?
sometimes it's like you have identity without a body. you can still *see* in
dreams, still *communicate* with other separate identities/entities in
dreams.. when we 'die', i sometimes imagine that we just lose the body..and
the ego... but that our essence continues... worth a thought...?

i've heard that there are two deaths. the death of the body, and then death
of the ego (maybe the egyptian BA and KA, cant remember). this could
explain why ppl have diff accounts of near death experiences. anyway, its
amazing how witnesses to the same event in the physical world can have
differing accounts, let alone peaking in to an unfamiliar realm.
the same environment will often be percieved differently by individuals.


if you've ever dabbled in good drugs, then i'm sure you've had the
connected *one with the universe* experience.. speaking of which, how the
hell can we NOT be at one with the universe?? does it stop at our outer
cells (*our* outer cells, like we *own* them, lol) and we impose upon it
from an external unrelated source?
we are part of this, not apart from it. we are the universe, we are god.



and of course organised religion is fucked up. but, the essence is there,
just heavily buried. if parts of the bible are of earlier sumerian origin,
are the sumerians then full of shit? its just lost in translation over the
years and hidden in esoteric forms that then have to also undergo
translation over the years. bits of the bible are from egypt, lost in
translation. if sumer and egypt weren't the initial source, maybe they had
it lost in translation also...

we fall for the false comfort of religion because we dont know who we are
and where we come from. in much the same way, we fall for other comforts-
nationalism, sports team, culture, tribe, family... an identity we build
that is not the real experiencer.



i recommend finding all the audio lectures of Alan Watts, about 50+ hours
worth, and listening to them all. ten or more times.


(ps anyone who is a druid, is not a druid. anyone who is a priest, is not a
priest. we are all the same)





not sure whether to hit send or delete . . . .












> ------------------------------

> From: www.robert.com at hotmail.co.uk

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:56:32 +0100

> Subject: [kj] KJ & Spirituality

>

>

>  I've read that Jaz became a Priest of an Anglican Church in New Zealand a

> few years ago, resigned from 2 out of 4 mystical orders he was a member 

> of,

> and has an interest in Gnosticism. Geordie apparently is a Kabbalah Master

> and Youth is a Druid. Also that Paul Ferguson is not so involved in occult

> practices now, as in the 1980s. I first began to study world religions and

> the esoteric, after getting into KJ after I saw them on BBC TV's Top of 

> the

> Pops and Channel 4's The Tube in 1985. I do believe there is life after

> death in some form. What do other Gatherers think?

>

> _______________________________________________ Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

>

>

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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 12:50:10 +0000
From: F Luke <fluke1 at live.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [kj] Funeral pyre
To: <gathering at misera.net>
Message-ID: <SNT104-W214E87B074CDC629BC846BEED0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Hi Rob , all is well , although recently I did have to spend a bit of time 
in jail and got a six month suspended sentence and a fine , I  accidentally 
got hit  over the shoulder with pool cue , I got banned from my friends bar 
and I had to spend three days in a house with a corpse , the weather seems 
to be either scorching hot or torrential rain, although there is a pleasant 
ten minute period between the scorching hot and torrential rain..... anyway 
at least the locals are nice and friendly and welcoming..............

From: rob.moss at gmx.com
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:59:17 +0100
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Funeral pyre

Two and a half Pete?
Nice insight to the culture. Hope all is well


On 3 Jul 2012, at 14:21, F Luke <fluke1 at live.co.uk> wrote:





Went to a local funeral last week, gfs Dad died (its OK, im not looking for 
any sympathy replies).Got a phone call that he had died, so myself, the gf 
and her sister jumped in a car and went up to the village, a small village 
near Laos and Myanmar, got there and went into the house ands the coffin was 
in the front room and they took the lid off to have a look ,  the funeral 
was in three days time and the coffin was staying in the living room until 
then, we were staying in the adjoining room. Over the next few days, various 
people came to pay their respects, each removing the lid ans having a 
look.Monks came around and sang a few songs.

  The day of the funeral arrived and more monks came and chanted, lifted the 
lid off again and tied some string to his wrists, carried to coffin toa 
truck, loaded it on the back and we all walked ahead of the truck pulling 
the string, the coffin was then unloaded to the pyre, where the lid was once 
again removed and family members poured a flammable liquid onto the body, 
making sure that it went into his mouth and that the eye sockets were full. 
The lid was replaced and wholes were made in the lid and more flammable 
liquid was poured in.

  We stood back . Monks began chanting and it was ignited. We stood and 
watched it burn, then went back to the house where Monk threw Holy water 
over us, to make sure we didnt bring any ghosts back with us.

  Three days later, we went back to the pyre, it was still very hot. We were 
there to retrieve any bones. We searched around the ashes looking for teeth 
and bones, removing them and placing them on a White sheet, I found a large 
bone and showed my gf, "Thats a good bit"She said "What bit is it" She 
asked. "I dont know" I said, so we asked the Monk.He studied it andsaid that 
it was a thigh bone. She was searching for teeth , its supposed to be good 
luck if you find someones teeth and keep them on your person.

  I thought that it was going to be really gruesome, but it wasnt . It all 
seemed quite natural.

I'd never seen a corpse untill this year, and now I ve seen two and a half 
corpses already this year

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