[kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

[sade1]

> ..innovate and create. Then the rest will surf on your coat tails. 

 
But K.J. has done that and they're still not rich! 





________________________________
From: Rob Moss <rob.moss at gmx.com>
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 4:05:42 PM
Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...


Yes. But who gets rich?
Then fund managers and a pathetic amount is passed to investors. I am a victim. 

The true way to get rich is to innovate and create. Then the rest will surf on 
your coat tails. 




On 12 Feb 2011, at 23:40, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:


I worked in the banking industry for 5+ years, commercial banking for about 2 
years, then trading floors for 3 +. During that time I witnessed the 
Econopocalypse firsthand; the events leading up to it, and the aftermath. I 
ended up working on the largest trading floor in the southern hemisphere, at a 
large investment firm that was one of those financial supermarkets – currency, 
equities, debt (huge dept!), private wealth management, m&a, infrastructure, you 
name it, they did it, 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. I rotated across all shifts 
so I got to see the activity of the market around the clock, talked to bankers 
all day long, CNBC / FOX was constantly on up on the plasma screens, I got the 
subscription newsletters they get from the financial shills, I read the analysis 
they sent out to their clients every day, and when I had downtime on night-shift 
I did my own research. I supported all of their trading platforms – Reuters, 
Bloomberg, EBS, and any number of proprietary systems from order entry to 
settlements. I used to find finance an absolute bore but after getting some 
exposure to it I find it fascinating - mainly the big picture, not the details.

> 

>So my initial interest was watching what was going on in the banking world, and 

>comparing it to what I was reading in the generally underground press. I won’t 

>comment too much on the difference between the two, suffice to say I never once 

>spoke to anyone in banking in that time who understood how money is created via 

>private central banks and the fractional reserve system. In fact I was once 

>ridiculed for mentioning it, which I was able to quash with a single Wikipedia 

>link…

> 

>These days I continue to read the business news online - mainly to check the 

>market figures, not for analysis.

>I go to www.seekingalpha.com – and filter out what I think are the decent 

>contributors. Often the comments section is better than the articles. 

>

> 

>In terms of individuals there’s a few and they change from time to time, in no 

>real order but I give the top two a fair bit of credence atm:

> 

>Gerald Celente

> 

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhaEc_4zuFI&feature=related

> 

>JS Kim (subscription fee to his newsletter is priced against the spot price of 

>gold)

> 

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_FbKvZ4yRc&feature=related

> 

>Jim Rogers

>Max Kaiser

>Peter Schiff

>Ron Paul (the last two only re economics, not politics)

>Gareth Morgan (NZ)

>Jim Rickards

>James Turk

>Mike Malone

>Was paying attention to Roubini but not so much anymore

>Alex Jones but largely for a laugh

>Kiyosaki – trying to suss him out at the moment…unsure.

> 

>Basically my criteria is people with a track record of being right more often 

>than not, and who understand the big picture. 

>

> 

>Bear in mind I could have this totally wrong – but the consequences for that are 

>actually pretty good – no collapse, no high unemployment, no food shortages, 

>wars, etc. So scenario one I hopefully prepare for and hedge against disaster, 

>scenario two there is no disaster and markets recover and everyone prospers. 

>There’s certainly a chance of that with Asia doing so well,  and the chance that 

>we’ll discover abundant clean energy just around the corner which will change 

>everything. Just on the current trajectory it looks nasty to me so I’m hedging 

>my bets and staying out of cash, bonds and equities, only in hard assets.

> 

> 

>From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On 

>Behalf Of sade1

>Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2011 8:38 a.m.

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

>Where do you turn to for info.? what 

>websites/books/paid-informants/covert-operatives,etc. do you turn to regularly?

> 

> 

> 

>

________________________________


>From:Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>

>Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 10:04:29 PM

>Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

>stocks are the only way nowadays to make any money.

> 

>Here’s a few facts: 

> 

>·         Money invested in the sharemarket from 2000, to now – made 0 %. 

>Diversification / index tracking (Wall St mantras) didn’t help one iota. Gold 

>made over 350% in that timeframe. USD lost half it’s value. 

>

> 

>·         Silver was up 82% last year. Commodities had a huge year. Almost 

>everything did well, when valued in dollar terms…because the dollars are 

>multiplying and have to go somewhere (if they languish in bank accounts 

>collecting 1.5% interest, they are going backwards)

> 

>·         If you had $1M in 2008, and copped a 50% hit, like most of the free 

>world, you were left with $500K. If you have made 100% since then, you’re up to 

>$750K (valued in dollars of less value due to inflation). Losses hit much harder 

>than gains. “Manage the losses and the gains will take care of themselves”. 

>

> 

>·         Something like 70-80% of money managers fail to make the market 

>average. 

>

> 

>Bankers love currencies, equities, derivatives, (mis)managing money for people, 

>and make nothing from gold and silver. What’s done better in the last 10 years? 

>Representations of assets, or hard assets? One is managed by the bankers, the 

>other actually exists in the real world. Correlation? 

>

> 

>Every dollar invested in gold and silver is a dollar the crooks can’t screw 

>management fees and commission on, generally for doing nothing other than 

>investing in index funds. Gold and silver can’t be printed from thin air, they 

>require hard work, knowledge and risk to extract. For all these reasons, bankers 

>hate gold and silver (which are uniquely both commodities and money)

> 

>Gold and silver have been used as money for far longer than paper. Long term, 

>paper money and all fiat currency has always gone to 0%. Metals have retained 

>their value for thousands of years. There is a finite supply of metals (and most 

>commodities), there is no limit to how much currency can be printed. I you don’t 

>believe me, feel free to bid on this ebay auction for 100 50 trillion dollar 

>Zimbabwe notes:

> 

> 

>Every time precious metals have dipped in the last 10 years of secular bull 

>market, the Wall St talking heads have proclaimed BUBBLE. The price of PMs has 

>been manipulated down for decades – the genie is starting to come out of the 

>bottle, hence he last 10 years results.  

> 

> 

>From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On 

>Behalf Of sade1

>Sent: Friday, 11 February 2011 5:37 p.m.

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

>> .. the retail investor has fled (finally learned some sense). 

> 

>What kind of trouble lurks for the retail investor? I'm running a small fund 

>(online) for a couple of elderly relatives and I've gotten 87% return in 10 

>months without anything weird happening or any other "things that go bump in the 

>night". Should I expect a knock at my door (or a second cursor on my computer 

>screen)? It seems around here, stocks are the only way nowadays to make any 

>money.

> 

> 

>

________________________________


>From:Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>

>Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 7:44:58 PM

>Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

>And that's with Corporate America sitting on a liquid $2Trillion in cash

> 

>Re US economy:

> 

>Cash - massive Ponzi scheme, every year it’s worth less and less. >>From 2000 to 

>2008 USD lost 50% of its buying power.

> 

>Bonds – what’s worse, holding US dollars now, or pieces of paper that promise US 

>Dollars in 30 years time? No thanks. (USD depreciated 41% vs AUD last year) 

>

> 

>Shares – totally manipulated, most trades are now done by computers, the retail 

>investor has fled (finally learned some sense). A few banks last year had 60 

>straight days up in trading – statistically close to impossible amid the 

>volatility at the moment. The markets are rigged.

> 

>            Google – “dark pools”  “high frequency trading” “SEC fines JPM” “SEC 

>fines Goldman”

> 

>Hard physical assets are where to park your money. Almost anything to do with 

>the financial representation of actual assets is tainted.

> 

>American banks aren’t using mark to market for bank ‘assets’ – if they were half 

>of them would be under water. $2T in cash is irrelevant when the other side of 

>the balance sheet is make believe (and the consumer, esp middle class, is 

>stuffed)

> 

>An economy that can’t add jobs after 2 years of 0% interest is pretty much 

>fucked.

> 

>US is waging massive currency war and complaining that others are. China is 

>actually raising interest rates, raising the value of the Yuan, and encouraging 

>people (via television ads) to buy physical gold and silver. What’s Obama and co 

>doing…? Printing money, debasing the currency.

> 

>Chinese saving rate > 30%. US saving rate 1%

> 

>“BELIEVE IN CHANGE”

> 

>Good luck with that.

> 

>/rant

> 

>From:gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On 

>Behalf Of sade1

>Sent: Friday, 11 February 2011 4:21 p.m.

>To: Gathering

>Subject: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

>So here it is again from the horses' mouths.  At the highest level they are 

>saying now that unemployment won't come down to a near(-but-still-high)-normal 

>5% for another 10 years, with 6 years being the Optimists' view. And that's with 

>Corporate America sitting on a liquid $2Trillion in cash = 50 million people 

>working for a year. They'd rather buy back their own stock (to keep the gains 

>and dividends in-house) than to put a commoner to work.

>9% Unemployment Just 

>Finehttp://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch?.gx=1&.rand=5fgqj6vg891ik

>And, 

>http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/20110209/pl_yblog_exclusive/why-is-the-jobless-rate-staying-so-high-and-what-can-be-done-about-it

>

> 

>10% of the land is The Hand 

>that pulls the strings... 

>to have, to own, to hold: 

>   money, property, assets - before lives

> 

>Green gestures..an endless debate

>Why? Just to justify, 

>             jus-ti-justify..this 'Utopia':

>                                                 "Money is our business

>                                                   Cash is our business 

>                                                    These derivatives is our 

>business

>                                                     Lies! are our business

>                                                      Business is our 

>Business!!"

> 

> 

> 

>

________________________________


>Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 

>in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

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