[kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

[Rob Moss]

Yes. But who gets rich?
Then fund managers and a pathetic amount is passed to investors. I am a victim. 

The true way to get rich is to innovate and create. Then the rest will surf on your coat tails. 




On 12 Feb 2011, at 23:40, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz> wrote:


> I worked in the banking industry for 5+ years, commercial banking for about 2 years, then trading floors for 3 +. During that time I witnessed the Econopocalypse firsthand; the events leading up to it, and the aftermath. I ended up working on the largest trading floor in the southern hemisphere, at a large investment firm that was one of those financial supermarkets – currency, equities, debt (huge dept!), private wealth management, m&a, infrastructure, you name it, they did it, 24 hours a day, 5 days a week. I rotated across all shifts so I got to see the activity of the market around the clock, talked to bankers all day long, CNBC / FOX was constantly on up on the plasma screens, I got the subscription newsletters they get from the financial shills, I read the analysis they sent out to their clients every day, and when I had downtime on night-shift I did my own research. I supported all of their trading platforms – Reuters, Bloomberg, EBS, and any number of proprietary systems from order entry to settlements. I used to find finance an absolute bore but after getting some exposure to it I find it fascinating - mainly the big picture, not the details.

> 

>  

> 

> So my initial interest was watching what was going on in the banking world, and comparing it to what I was reading in the generally underground press. I won’t comment too much on the difference between the two, suffice to say I never once spoke to anyone in banking in that time who understood how money is created via private central banks and the fractional reserve system. In fact I was once ridiculed for mentioning it, which I was able to quash with a single Wikipedia link…

> 

>  

> 

> These days I continue to read the business news online - mainly to check the market figures, not for analysis.

> 

> I go to www.seekingalpha.com – and filter out what I think are the decent contributors. Often the comments section is better than the articles.

> 

>  

> 

> In terms of individuals there’s a few and they change from time to time, in no real order but I give the top two a fair bit of credence atm:

> 

>  

> 

> Gerald Celente

> 

>  

> 

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhaEc_4zuFI&feature=related

> 

>  

> 

> JS Kim (subscription fee to his newsletter is priced against the spot price of gold)

> 

>  

> 

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_FbKvZ4yRc&feature=related

> 

>  

> 

> Jim Rogers

> 

> Max Kaiser

> 

> Peter Schiff

> 

> Ron Paul (the last two only re economics, not politics)

> 

> Gareth Morgan (NZ)

> 

> Jim Rickards

> 

> James Turk

> 

> Mike Malone

> 

> Was paying attention to Roubini but not so much anymore

> 

> Alex Jones but largely for a laugh

> 

> Kiyosaki – trying to suss him out at the moment…unsure.

> 

>  

> 

> Basically my criteria is people with a track record of being right more often than not, and who understand the big picture.

> 

>  

> 

> Bear in mind I could have this totally wrong – but the consequences for that are actually pretty good – no collapse, no high unemployment, no food shortages, wars, etc. So scenario one I hopefully prepare for and hedge against disaster, scenario two there is no disaster and markets recover and everyone prospers. There’s certainly a chance of that with Asia doing so well,  and the chance that we’ll discover abundant clean energy just around the corner which will change everything. Just on the current trajectory it looks nasty to me so I’m hedging my bets and staying out of cash, bonds and equities, only in hard assets.

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of sade1

> Sent: Sunday, 13 February 2011 8:38 a.m.

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

>  

> 

> Where do you turn to for info.? what websites/books/paid-informants/covert-operatives,etc. do you turn to regularly?

>  

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

> From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>

> Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 10:04:29 PM

> Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

> stocks are the only way nowadays to make any money.

> 

>  

> 

> Here’s a few facts:

> 

>  

> 

> ·         Money invested in the sharemarket from 2000, to now – made 0 %. Diversification / index tracking (Wall St mantras) didn’t help one iota. Gold made over 350% in that timeframe. USD lost half it’s value.

> 

>  

> 

> ·         Silver was up 82% last year. Commodities had a huge year. Almost everything did well, when valued in dollar terms…because the dollars are multiplying and have to go somewhere (if they languish in bank accounts collecting 1.5% interest, they are going backwards)

> 

>  

> 

> ·         If you had $1M in 2008, and copped a 50% hit, like most of the free world, you were left with $500K. If you have made 100% since then, you’re up to $750K (valued in dollars of less value due to inflation). Losses hit much harder than gains. “Manage the losses and the gains will take care of themselves”.

> 

>  

> 

> ·         Something like 70-80% of money managers fail to make the market average.

> 

>  

> 

> Bankers love currencies, equities, derivatives, (mis)managing money for people, and make nothing from gold and silver. What’s done better in the last 10 years? Representations of assets, or hard assets? One is managed by the bankers, the other actually exists in the real world. Correlation?

> 

>  

> 

> Every dollar invested in gold and silver is a dollar the crooks can’t screw management fees and commission on, generally for doing nothing other than investing in index funds. Gold and silver can’t be printed from thin air, they require hard work, knowledge and risk to extract. For all these reasons, bankers hate gold and silver (which are uniquely both commodities and money)

> 

>  

> 

> Gold and silver have been used as money for far longer than paper. Long term, paper money and all fiat currency has always gone to 0%. Metals have retained their value for thousands of years. There is a finite supply of metals (and most commodities), there is no limit to how much currency can be printed. I you don’t believe me, feel free to bid on this ebay auction for 100 50 trillion dollar Zimbabwe notes:

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

> Every time precious metals have dipped in the last 10 years of secular bull market, the Wall St talking heads have proclaimed BUBBLE. The price of PMs has been manipulated down for decades – the genie is starting to come out of the bottle, hence he last 10 years results.  

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of sade1

> Sent: Friday, 11 February 2011 5:37 p.m.

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

>  

> 

> > .. the retail investor has fled (finally learned some sense).

> 

>  

> 

> What kind of trouble lurks for the retail investor? I'm running a small fund (online) for a couple of elderly relatives and I've gotten 87% return in 10 months without anything weird happening or any other "things that go bump in the night". Should I expect a knock at my door (or a second cursor on my computer screen)? It seems around here, stocks are the only way nowadays to make any money.

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

> From: Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz>

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>

> Sent: Thu, February 10, 2011 7:44:58 PM

> Subject: Re: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

> And that's with Corporate America sitting on a liquid $2Trillion in cash

> 

>  

> 

> Re US economy:

> 

>  

> 

> Cash - massive Ponzi scheme, every year it’s worth less and less. >From 2000 to 2008 USD lost 50% of its buying power.

> 

>  

> 

> Bonds – what’s worse, holding US dollars now, or pieces of paper that promise US Dollars in 30 years time? No thanks. (USD depreciated 41% vs AUD last year)

> 

>  

> 

> Shares – totally manipulated, most trades are now done by computers, the retail investor has fled (finally learned some sense). A few banks last year had 60 straight days up in trading – statistically close to impossible amid the volatility at the moment. The markets are rigged.

> 

>  

> 

>             Google – “dark pools”  “high frequency trading” “SEC fines JPM” “SEC fines Goldman”

> 

>  

> 

> Hard physical assets are where to park your money. Almost anything to do with the financial representation of actual assets is tainted.

> 

>  

> 

> American banks aren’t using mark to market for bank ‘assets’ – if they were half of them would be under water. $2T in cash is irrelevant when the other side of the balance sheet is make believe (and the consumer, esp middle class, is stuffed)

> 

>  

> 

> An economy that can’t add jobs after 2 years of 0% interest is pretty much fucked.

> 

>  

> 

> US is waging massive currency war and complaining that others are. China is actually raising interest rates, raising the value of the Yuan, and encouraging people (via television ads) to buy physical gold and silver. What’s Obama and co doing…? Printing money, debasing the currency.

> 

>  

> 

> Chinese saving rate > 30%. US saving rate 1%

> 

>  

> 

> “BELIEVE IN CHANGE”

> 

>  

> 

> Good luck with that.

> 

>  

> 

> /rant

> 

>  

> 

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of sade1

> Sent: Friday, 11 February 2011 4:21 p.m.

> To: Gathering

> Subject: [kj] OT -- 9%... 10%...

> 

>  

> 

> So here it is again from the horses' mouths.  At the highest level they are saying now that unemployment won't come down to a near(-but-still-high)-normal 5% for another 10 years, with 6 years being the Optimists' view. And that's with Corporate America sitting on a liquid $2Trillion in cash = 50 million people working for a year. They'd rather buy back their own stock (to keep the gains and dividends in-house) than to put a commoner to work.

> 

> 9% Unemployment Just Fine http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch?.gx=1&.rand=5fgqj6vg891ik

> 

> And, http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_exclusive/20110209/pl_yblog_exclusive/why-is-the-jobless-rate-staying-so-high-and-what-can-be-done-about-it

> 

>  

> 

> 10% of the land is The Hand

> 

> that pulls the strings...

> 

> to have, to own, to hold:

> 

>    money, property, assets - before lives

> 

>  

> 

> Green gestures..an endless debate

> 

> Why? Just to justify,

> 

>              jus-ti-justify..this 'Utopia':

> 

>                                                  "Money is our business

> 

>                                                    Cash is our business

> 

>                                                     These derivatives is our business

> 

>                                                      Lies! are our business

> 

>                                                       Business is our Business!!"

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

>  

> 

> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 

> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Gathering mailing list

> Gathering at misera.net

> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/gathering/attachments/20110213/587a9710/attachment-0001.html>