[kj] OT: Lydon, US v UK punk

[GREG SLAWSON]

I think you're mostly right, Sir Moss--the 2 scenes were different, developed separately, pub rock led directly to UK punk, etc. But I do think there was some connection b/w the US and UK scenes in terms of music/attitude--
what about many of the early UK bands listening to the Dolls, Modern Lovers (the Pistols covered them, remember) etc? And all rock historians seem to point to the Ramones
tour of UK as a defining influence. I think all people were trying to say is that some US bands had some influence on the whole thing. But if you want to talk post-1976, it's obvious
that all the UK bands (Pistols, Clash, Buzzcocks, Jam, Gang of Four, and even some obscure band w/a name like Killers of a Joke or something--but not so much the lesser known Damned!) 
have had a huge, huge, huge influence on many many US bands for decades, and still do!
 


From: rob.moss at gmx.com
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:48:31 +0000
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Lydon, US v UK punk


The thing is that we in the UK were suffering from incredible hardship and deprivation in the mid 70s. Bands like The Faces and the Pub Rock scene combined with the afore mentioned conditions mutated into this thing called punk. 


Yes there was the NY scene and yes there were the Dolls and yes the energy was exciting and Mclaren did see it and did use it BUT it was going to happen as a reaction to It all anyway. 


But the two are not the same. The states would have done it's thing. The UK would have done it's thing. The two were not joined. They were very very different and for it to be continually claimed that one begat the other is wrong. American punk was nothing like English punk was it? For a start, most of the bands were shit. 


As for the blues Cliff, how far back do you want to take it? They were playing stringed instruments in England in the fourteenth century. These mutated into the guitar. Blues players played guitar therefore, using your logic, the blues were/was invented in the UK in the fourteenth century. 


And yes. My tongue is firmly in my cheek and I am delighted that my dear friends stateside have jumped up and bitten just like every time this one comes up. 


I love it!


Silly fuckers!!!





On 2 Feb 2011, at 14:12, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:







We've been over this too many times.


Had there not been the Stooges, the Velvet Underground, the Modern Lovers, the MC5 and the Ramones (all Yanks), there would not have been a UK punk. Yes, British Punk evolved into an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THING, but one inarguably led to the other. Full stop.


As much as I love Television, though, I never thought they were particularly "punk" (by any definition).  Art-rockers who dressed like junkies but played a brand of floridly ornate guitar rock that isn't any less masturbatory than the most gratuitous prog.


Alex in NYC




On Feb 2, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Jim Harper wrote:





I think it's obvious there was in NYC there was a creative vital and original musical movement happening in the late 70s. But much as I love Talking Heads, Blondie and the mighty Television, I have a really hard time connecting it with the UK punk movement. I don't know if he came to the UK, but in '76 Verlaine would probably have been burned at the stake...
 
Just my thoughts...
 
Jim.

--- On Wed, 2/2/11, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:



Oh yes -- `cos Lydon's ALWAYS been ENTIRELY CORRECT and ACCURATE ABOUT ABSOLUTELY *EVERY*THING, hasn't he?


Alex in NYC




On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:57 AM, Rob Moss wrote:


Quite right. 


Punk rock. 
America. 


Silly idea. 





On 2 Feb 2011, at 08:25, nicholas fitzpatrick <gasw30 at hotmail.com> wrote:




I'm not trying to fan the flames of this debate as I don't personally have an interest. However, I like history, so for the punk historians on the board, from today's '60 second' interview in the Metro:

Q: If the Pistols hadn't existed, would punk have happened?

A: No. There's confusion about this from people who should know better. Whatever was happening in New York was being done by much older people than us who were interested in the poetry of Rimbaud or glam rock - which isn't where we were. Older acts claimed it came from them first, which isn't right.

Apart from that, he says he's releasing a book called Mr Rotten's Scrapbook, limited edition, 750 copies, £449 (that's not a typo!). He also says the butter adverts funded the PiL tours. 









Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 19:06:27 -0800
From: saulomar1 at yahoo.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] What is God disappeared?




Bullshit!  *wink-wink* I mean, Brighter Than A Thousand Suns!
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCuc34hvD4#t=2m57s
 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPDaz6uO9Ps
 




From: Paul Wady <paulwady at hotmail.com>
To: Gatherers Killing Joke Gatherers <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Tue, February 1, 2011 6:26:01 AM
Subject: [kj] What is God disappeared?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCuc34hvD4 




KNOW YE, HEATHEN HORDES OF GATHERERS, WHAT OUR WORLD WOULD LOOK LIKE IF THE CREATOR DID A LORD-LUCAN!!!







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