[kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

[ade]

Yeah, of course, you have full control of your physicality, lol !!!

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net
[mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Brendan
Sent: 19 March 2008 02:45
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American
Right


Instinctive behaviours are not chosen, they rise up from inside us. I
don't choose to cry, fight/flight, etc.

Not so sure about that one...could I play Devil's unpaid advocate and say
that you *choose* to reisist your self-control and give in to your baser
instincts? Do you not have a range of options available?

It's an exceedingly hard question to answer IMO.


> No worries mate - I know you only want what's best - we'll agree to

> disagree ;)

>

> Nah, I don't think humanity can *only* do nasty. I just think it needs to

> be factored-in is all. Instinctive behaviours are not chosen, they rise up

> from inside us. I don't choose to cry, fight/flight, etc.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On

> Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON

> Sent: 18 March 2008 23:57

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

>

>

>

> I know there's also evidence of "primitive" cooperative societies where

> the food was shared and stuff. But I think the main weakness in your point

> (isn;t that what the BBC people call the news in the UK) is in comparing

> human behavior to the evolution of animals. Humans are the only animals

> that can significantly control their environments, b/c are brains are so

> friggin' evolved (esp. among Joke fans)! We are able to choose behaviors

> that go way beyond remnants of our evolution. In fact, we often  choose

> behaviors that are worse than those related to our animal roots--e.g.,

> invading other countries. SO i think it's a mistake to say that we are

> programmed to be mean, when humans can display a huge range of behavior.

> The point is to develop a culture in which mutually cooperative behaviors

> are chosen (and I know you'll probably say that what's good for one person

> is bad for another, etc. but i think working for the collective good

> actually works best).

>

>

>   _____

>

> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:50:00 +0000

> From: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

>

>

> Cheers Greg.

>

> OK, I've done the 'working together' point earlier this week - yep, we

> work together well when we're in the shit, but that is only transient.

> None of us is without prejudice, so disagreements & power struggles soon

> creep in.

>

> As for the classes/hierarchy not existing, when was that? We have Iron Age

> graves here in the UK, wherein people of high rank were buried with lots

> of nice things - jewelry, posh swords, etc. Stonehenge? Religious elite.

> Peasants? Well, you won't find their graves as well marked - they wouldn't

> build a 20 foot mound for a nobody. Otherwise UK the UK would be far more

> hilly than it is, lol !

>

> If we come from animals, surely we can see that control of the pack,

> leadership, a power hierarchy, power struggle etc, all exist in the animal

> world?

>

> I think the problem with your arguments is that they rely on people being

> NICE. Man, wouldn't that be great? It's not as I don't dream of the world

> you describe. Yet Nature & the animal kingdom is far from nice. It's

> something we're inextricably tied to. Check out those pointy teeth in your

> mouth.

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On

> Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON

> Sent: 18 March 2008 22:23

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

>

>

> Case in point: Most of human history (before  classes existed) involved

> far more sharing and cooperation than nastiness and fucking people over.

> Other case in point: In situations where people have little time to think

> or even act on how they have been socialized, e.g. disaters, many people

> go as far as taking big risks to help others. So why not try to work for

> societies where this behavior is allowed to flourish (after a revolution,

> b/c capitalism makes too many reasons why it can't)...

>

>

>

>   _____

>

> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:30:18 +0000

> From: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

>

>

>> As long as people can profit from fucking up other people, they will!

>

> So, really this goes much further than corporates, crapitalism & all that,

> surely? If mankind is happy to fuck itself over, well, maybe all the

> nastiness that mankind metes out is going to hapooen one way or another,

> no matter what system is in place? Surely it's easier for everyone to just

> blame the 'bad man' instead of facing up to mankinds' ability to be very

> GOOD & very BAD?

>

> Sadly, revolution just replaces one bunch of controllers with another.

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On

> Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON

> Sent: 18 March 2008 03:28

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

>

>

> Thanks for the compliment, Brendan. That was a good post. And what you're

> saying even goes beyond advertising. I've heard that 2 of the most

> profitable things in the world are prostitution and illegal drugs, which

> aren't even advertised...As long as people can profit from fucking up

> other people, they will! (Of course I don't have to add the tag about

> revolution--y'all know that already).

> P.S> RIP Mikey Dread!

>

>> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

>> To: gathering at misera.net

>> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:06:01 +1300

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

>> Right

>>

>> Yeah I hear you, but I just think that the negative social messages

>> portrayed by corporates and the press (same thing) that I'm talking

>> about

>> are too intrusive, and the target audience is too vulnerable.

>>

>> Does it not bother you that you drive through the city and practically

>> wherever you are, you can't avoid catching billboards featuring the most

>> beautiful people they can find, surgically enhanced, gymmed up, fake

>> tan,

>> expensive clothes, expensive photoshoot, photoshopped...who can live up

>> to

>> that?! And the messages they portray, the smug aloof superior looks on

>> their

>> faces..."This shit is exclusive! Only top grade pussy wears Gucci...you

>> could never interest anyone that sexy..."

>>

>> We're fucking devolving, maaaaaan.

>>

>> And what is the alternative? Cities could be made to actually look

>> beautiful, messages could be positive messages about US as opposed to US

>> vs

>> THEM (the beautiful people vs the masses...the rich vs the poor, the

>> discerning vs the plain, the popular vs the losers, the SPECIAL vs the

>> drab)

>>

>> The statistics are overwhelming...the amount of ads on children's tv for

>> nutritionless harmful super-sweet food vs healthy food that will

>> actually

>> benefit them in some way, the bullshit collaboration between the press

>> and

>> govt / corporate lobby groups, the OWNERSHIP of the press by corporates

>> with

>> no social responsibility, etc etc. It's all very well saying 'hey you

>> can

>> opt out at any time' but it's not that easy. (I just gave my telly away,

>> that helped a lot). I've seen it intensify since I was a kid...back in

>> the

>> day when I was a kid the telly wanted to sell me sports equipment, lego

>> and

>> other toys that would actually enhance my learning, and yes, plastic

>> pieces

>> of shit at McDonalds and junk food, now kids are getting pressure to

>> have a

>> cellphone, dress like an adult way before they are out of childhood,

>> behave

>> like the vapid actors and actresses on the faux reality-tv programmes

>> about

>> spoiled LA brats...

>>

>> NOTHING TO SAY!

>>

>> (Olly where are you when I need you hippie, back me up here I've gone

>> out on

>> a limb and I'm starting to invent words to bloster my argument. Or Greg,

>> you're completely wrong about Soundgarden but you're the leftist of the

>> bunch, you're needed at the front! ;)

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]

>> On

>> Behalf Of ade

>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2008 11:30 a.m.

>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

>> Right

>>

>> Dude, if people want to be smug fucking thin-veneered shallow

>> motherfuckers,

>> what's new??!! Ooh, I've got a lifestyle, I've got a fancy car, etc,

>> etc.

>> That's THEM. Don't *just* blame consumerism - people like that would do

>> it

>> anyway... sometimes I think the lefty point of view just doesn't get

>> that

>> *many* people are vile !!!! Ooh, let's all cuddle-up & send bad vibes to

>> the corporates - lol !!!

>>

>> Don't you see that this is all about human communication? Constantly

>> evolving. The pendulum swings both ways... as do you! ;)

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

>> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Brendan Quinn

>> Sent: 17 March 2008 22:19

>> To: 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

>> Right

>>

>>

>> A lot of us went dark at that Manic twat for trying to sell us his

>> merchandise when this list was created for KJ fans to discuss KJ

>> etc...so I

>> suppose you could say Facebook conjures in some people a similar

>> sentiment...although I agree the circumstances are a bit different. One

>> of

>> the author's main gripes is the cynical commodititisation,

>> electronification, and distancification of basic human interaction, if

>> you

>> follow my invented words. The popularity contest with friends lists,

>> that's

>> the kind of stuff that REALLY gets on my goat, personally. I mean what,

>> aren't all the bullshit messages on billboards, tv, magazines, movies

>> etc

>> enough to convince us that life is all about material wealth,

>> populatiry,

>> and physical beauty?! The message is so overwhelmingly

>> prevalent...personally it disgusts me. Some areas seem to be chock full

>> of

>> people all with the perfect haircut, sunglasses, clothes, car etc, and

>> they

>> just radiate smug / superior. It's sickly. I could easily turn into one

>> of

>> those people if I wanted, but why? I'd quite honestly prefer hanging out

>> with EMOs :)

>>

>> Re. the sale of personal information to corporates (personal information

>> such as bands you like, your location, age, gender, etc). I think he has

>> a

>> point, and I think it's relevant to discuss the motives of the creators

>> of

>> Facebook too. He may have gone a bit rabid on it...perhaps.

>>

>> In terms of conspiracy 'theories'...a question: When a conspiracy theory

>> becomes a conspiracy reality...do people take notice? Another

>> question...how

>> many people think that Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald?

>> How

>> many people with any basic understanding of physics, think that...?

>>

>> As Bill Hicks said...Back and to the left...back and to the left...

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]

>> On

>> Behalf Of ade

>> Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2008 10:16 a.m.

>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

>> Right

>>

>> Pat-ster,

>>

>> I'm surprised you can't see just what a heap of sh!t that so-called

>> article is. Wow - big money people invest in things that could be big.

>> NOT ONCE have I had to divulge any information such as purchasing

>> preferences, ID card details (what fucking ID card??? Is he writing

>> from the future???), etc, to Facebook HQ whilst setting up or using

>> my account. I find it useful to keep in touch with people from work.

>> Neither have I had to divulge anything to Myspace - I have a load of

>> Myspace pages for music projects. It's somewhere to upload mp3's!

>>

>> And if you think I'm blind to it, a) I'm *proper* paranoid, lol &

>> b) I'm a 'techie' - I don't just sign up for anything. I don't want

>> the scum to know ANYTHING. In fact, I rarely register for *anything*

>> on the web.

>>

>> Now, did you post that turd? I bet they'll be x-raying the package.

>> They're watching you... ;)

>>

>>

>> ade.

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

>> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of iPat

>> Sent: 17 March 2008 18:22

>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

>> Right

>>

>>

>> A shame i wasted my useful time reading that email

>> i wonder if i could pen a patronising bit of drivvel as well

>>

>> Who knows, maybe e can get some prick to autograph it, though it might

>> hide behind pseudonyms to give itself a false platform of

>> intelligence.

>>

>> ill call it

>>

>> "a fart under the covers"

>>

>> off now, feel a shit coming on. I ll send it somewhere.

>>

>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:23 PM, The Exorcist

>> <killingjoke at theimmortalfool.com> wrote:

>> >

>> > A shame I wasted my useful time reading that crap.

>> > I wonder if I ought to pen a long article about that as well!

>> >

>> > Who knows, maybe I can have Mr. Tom Hodgkinson autograph it. Though

>> he'll

>> > probably use a

>> > false signature to avoid detection... Just in case.... Ya know?

>> >

>> > I'll call it

>> >

>> > "Angry male who sees conspiracies everywhere and despises successful

>> people

>> > who have

>> > different political views than he does".

>> >

>> > Maybe I'll submit it to The Guaridan as well. I've heard that they

>> like

>> to

>> > publish some really crappy articles.

>> >

>> >

>> iPat

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>

>

>   _____

>

> Watch "Cause Effect," a show about real people making a real difference.

> Learn more. <http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause>

>

>

>   _____

>

> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play chicktionary!

> <http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_feb>

>

>

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>

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