[kj] OT- Alex, Johnny speaks of the Ramones

[Alexander Smith]

"some romanticise, theorise, some experienced."

And some fail to see the forrest for the trees.

"For some punk was simply a bit of rock n roll whilst for others it  
was a whole social phenomenon."

Late `70's NYC Punk and Later `70s British Punk are not the same  
thing. There was a fair amount of mutation when it crossed over. NYC  
Punk never claimed to be a political movement.


> "there were first wave bands totally uninfluenced by the ramones,  

> proved that before and can prove it now."


Many of those same bands have gone on record -- including the  
`Pistols -- as citing the NYC Punks (of whom the Ramones were but a  
faction) as being a crucial influence. Listen to Steve Jones  
(inarguably as vital a part of the Pistols' gestalt as Rotten, if not  
even more so) -- for a start, on SOME PRODUCT -- Jones himself says  
"we're not a political band, we're a party band" (reconcile that as  
you will). And in THE FILTH AND THE FURY, Jones cops to borrowing  
heavily -- if not wholesale -- from Johnny Thunders (also from NYC).

Obviously,  not EVERY British band cites NYC Punk -- I know the  
Stranglers have more roots in British pub rock and the like  
(Dr.Feelgood, etc.), but to try to assert that NYC Punk had nothing  
to do with the Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, Buzzcocks etc. is  
flatly ludicrous.


> "When i first saw it explode it was the music set to scenes of  

> chaos and not dingy nightclubs with drag queens and self indulgent  

> hippies."


Again, the UK scene and the NYC scene were very different beasts --  
but one fed the other. And it was probably the armies of self- 
indulgent BRITISH hippies who inspired the NYC scene to begin with.


> "to even try and pinpoint the single influence is arrogant and self

> indulgent, a pointless exercise to satisfy the fantasies of an

> impotent adolescent"


You're entitled to your interpretation, but you're simply denying a  
flashpoint -- and a flashpoint that has been cited by scores of  
British proponents, no less.

Again, British Punk and NYC Punk were very different things, but one  
clearly fed and inspired the other. And if you can't recognize that,  
it's YOU that's being the ignorant one.


Alex in NYC















On Sep 21, 2007, at 9:32 AM, iPat wrote:


> some romanticise, theorise, some experienced.

> For some punk was simply a bit of rock n roll whilst for others it was

> a whole social phenomenon.

> there were first wave bands totally uninfluenced by the ramones,

> proved that before and can prove it now.

> When i first saw it explode it was the music set to scenes of chaos

> and not dingy nightclubs with drag queens and self indulgent hippies.

>

> to even try and pinpoint the single influence is arrogant and self

> indulgent, a pointless exercise to satisfy the fantasies of an

> impotent adolescent. There were many influences and they came from

> loads of different angles, a melting pot of social shifting with

> musical breakdown. To not be able to see that is simply ignorant.

>

> On 9/21/07, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

>>

>> And that proves what?

>>

>> Alex in NYC

>>

>>

>> On Sep 21, 2007, at 8:59 AM, iPat wrote:

>>

>>> i lived it

>>>

>>> On 9/21/07, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> Face facts, Mary Poppins -- it started here. Get over it!

>>>>

>>>> Alex in NY motherfucking C!!!

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>>

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>

>

> -- 

> Pat Davies

> www.amag.org.uk

> Freedom is at the beginning as well as at the end, and if you accept

> an authority at the beginning, you will always be a slave at the end.

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