[kj] ot - debt

Fri Oct 13 15:17:38 EDT 2006

He keeps focusing on Europeans enslaving Third World people . Slavery has 
been going on for thousands of years involving nearly every country. China , 
Arabia and going right back to Roman times . Slavery is still going on today 
, why doesnt he focus on stopping todays slave trade?
Slaves can be bought for as littler as US$40 in Mali (compared to the going 
rate of the equivalent of US$38 000 in 1850).
    27-200 Million people are in virtual slavery today , why not focus on 
these people instead of delving back into history?
    Why does he ALWAYS focus on Europeans enslaving others, when slavery has 
happened and is STILL happening in nearly every country in the World?
Flew is needlessly singeing out a specific race, which makes him a racist


>From: "GREG SLAWSON" <gregslawson at msn.com>
>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the 
>band!)"<gathering at misera.net>
>To: gathering at misera.net
>Subject: RE: [kj] ot - debt
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:53:56 -0400
>
>
>
>Peter, you nut job, the past doesn't make people who live in the present 
>guilty. It's the drive for profit from labor that is to blame--whether it's 
>conquistadors of the past scrambling for gold, land, and slaves, or 
>current-day multinationals increasing productivity (i.e, doing more work 
>w/fewer people) and stagnating wages and lowering benefits. There are many 
>current studies, many done by the US government, that show the 
>latter trend, so you can't just blame it on psychotic commie drivel.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From:  "flight Bringer" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
>Reply-To:  "A list about all things Killing Joke (the 
>band!)"<gathering at misera.net>
>To:  gathering at misera.net
>Subject:  RE: [kj] ot - debt
>Date:  Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:09:48 +0100
> >Stop bashing White people, you racist carnt .
> >If person kept posting things about all the wrong things Africans
> >have ever done , he would get labeled a racist carnt .
> >  Its always the same story with you :
> >Innocent, naive South American /African/Asian peoples in the
> >1400-1700's happily going about their  business and a boat load of
> >disease ridden Europeans land and the natives are very friendly and
> >welcoming but the bastard White people shag all the women , give
>
> >them all influenza and scabies , infest their beautiful island with
> >rats and take all the poor natives  goods and ruin their lives for
> >evermore.
> >  We are the descendants of these bastards. So its all our fault .
> >We are evil. White people are the devil and all must die. White
> >people have ruined this once beautiful World.............OK I'm
> >getting a bit carried away now
> >  As you are on a guilt trip, you have just got to have had a
> >Catholic education .
> >Take your racist crap and fark off
> >
> >>From: fluw <fluwdot at earthlink.net>
> >>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> >>band!)"<gathering at misera.net>
> >>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >><gathering at misera.net>
> >>Subject: [kj]
>ot - debt
> >>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:57:22 -0400
> >>
> >>The Historical Debt to Native People Has Still Not Been Paid
> >>
> >>
> >>The Myth Keepers of Columbus
> >>
> >>
> >>By ROBERT ROBIDEAU
> >>
> >>In 1993, 500 years after European invaders of the Americas had
> >>brought the
> >>first Native Americans to Europe in chains, my plane landed in
> >>Barcelona,
> >>Spain, I had been invited to the International Cultural Symposium
> >>to speak
> >>on behalf of Leonard Peltier. The day after my arrival, I took a
> >>walk down
> >>their famous Rambler to the Placa del Portal de la Pau where I ran
> >>head long
> >>into a monument of Christopher Columbus. Build for the World
> >>Exhibition in
> >>1888, the iron column is an
>impressive 197 feet tall and weighs 205
> >>tons. On
> >>top the column stands a 26 foot statue of Columbus with head
> >>sculptured
> >>high, positioned to face out over its outstretched arm, with finger
> >>pointing
> >>over the Mediterranean sea and out to the distant horizon toward
> >>the
> >>Americas. As I moved around its base I discovered a series of
> >>relief's
> >>depicting the "new lands." What I saw was not the innocence that
> >>had been
> >>carved, but instead the first stages of colonization, the rape and
> >>plunder
> >>of the land and people of the Americas.
> >>
> >>Christopher Columbus was born in 1451 in Genoa, Italy. At age 14 he
> >>became a
> >>sailor, shipwrecked off of Portugal in 1470, he remained until his
> >>idea
>to
> >>sail west to India, known then as "Hindustan," was financed by
> >>Ferdinand and
> >>Isabella of Spain in 1492. He reached the Bahamas on October 12th,
> >>visited
> >>Cuba and Hispaniola (Haiti), where he left a small colony before
> >>returning
> >>to Spain on March 15th, 1493 bringing with him 6 captive Taino
> >>people, taken
> >>from the Caribbean islands, who were presented to Ferdinand and
> >>Isabella in
> >>the royal court of Barcelona as proof of his travel. A painting
> >>that today
> >>hangs in (government building) show the Taino people at the feet of
> >>the king
> >>and queen in servile postures of slaves. The 6 Tainos never saw
> >>home again,
> >>their spirits still linger in the streets of Barcelona.
> >>
> >>In his delirium
>Columbus thought he landed in Paradise. He wrote in
> >>his
> >>journal that Taínos had beautiful, tall, slender olive bodies. They
> >>wore
> >>short haircuts with a long hank at the back of the head. They were
> >>clean-shaven and hairless. According to Columbus the Taíno tongue
> >>was
> >>"gentle, the sweetest in the world, always with a laugh."
> >>
> >>Friendly relations did not last long, many Tainos were beaten and
> >>murdered.
> >>The Spanish brought diseases with them that the Tainos lacked
> >>immunity to.
> >>The weapons that the Spanish were far superior to the Tainos. An
> >>estimated
> >>fifty thousand Tainos perished within two years of Columbus
> >>landing. The
> >>Spanish jammed more then five hundred Taino prisoners into a boat
> >>for
>Spain.
> >>They became homeless in their own land. They were devastated by
> >>abuse,
> >>starvation, and disease. Life was never the same for Indians of the
> >>Americas
> >>after 1492. Puerto Rico, an Island once occupied by Tainos were
> >>almost wiped
> >>out within two decades.
> >>
> >>With the arrival of Columbus begin the onslaught of genocide in the
> >>Americas
> >>that Europeans only whisper about. The legacy of Columbus has kept
> >>Native
> >>Americans at the very bottom of the socio-economic ladder.
> >>Population
> >>surveys of the Americas estimates that at the time Columbus
> >>stumbled onto
> >>the Americas 100 million people inhabited it, a count far greater
> >>then that
> >>of all Europe in those times. More then 10 million
>resided in the
> >>United
> >>States, today less then a million remain in the United States. Many
> >>tribes
> >>have long become decimated and extinct.
> >>
> >>The myth that continues to be propagated is that Native Americans
> >>were
> >>savages and the civilization brought by Europeans saved them.
> >>Reality is
> >>that the foods, medicines and political structures of Native
> >>Nations in the
> >>Americas not only saved Europeans from constant famine in Europe
> >>but also
> >>taught them much about freedom and democracy, later adopted by the
> >>forefathers of Euro Americans. The model of Iroquois Confederacy
> >>(Haudenosaunee, also known as the League of Peace and Power)
> >>enabled the
> >>United States to form in part its constitution which,
>thanks to
> >>President
> >>Bush's Patriot Act, is well on the road to become myth. Today, the
> >>myth of
> >>democracy, has become a perverted tool to dominate, subjugate and
> >>colonize
> >>other countries around the world such as Iraq and Palestine.
> >>
> >>The United States held their first celebration of the "discovery of
> >>America"
> >>in New York, on October 12, 1792. At that time the only statue of
> >>Columbus
> >>in existence was in New York. In 1876, Italian Americans of
> >>Philadelphia
> >>erected a statue of Columbus in Fairmount Park. In 1905 Italian
> >>Americans in
> >>Denver, Colorado were the first to observe Columbus Day. It was not
> >>until
> >>September 1934 that President Franklin D. Roosevelt made it
>
> >>national
> >>holiday. Finally, Columbus Day became a federal legal holiday in
> >>1971 after
> >>lobbying from the National Columbus Day Committee. Columbus Day or
> >>"El Dia
> >>de la Raza" has brought a wave of dissent across the United States
> >>and
> >>Canada by many Native Americans who feel that it perpetuates a myth
> >>that
> >>breeds bias and racism toward them.
> >>
> >>Since 1970 Native Americans have gathered to commemorate a National
> >>Day of
> >>Mourning on Thanksgiving in remembrance of the genocide of millions
> >>of
> >>Native Peoples, theft of Native lands and the relentless assault on
> >>Native
> >>cultures since Columbus open the flood gates to European invasions
> >>of the
> >>Americas. It is curious that
>Columbus Day is, except for religious
> >>holidays,
> >>the only historical event which all Pan-American countries
> >>celebrate.
> >>
> >>Since 1989 the Colorado AIM chapter has lead a protest against the
> >>Columbus
> >>Day Parade in Denver declaring, "As the original people of this
> >>land, we
> >>cannot and will not, tolerate social and political festivities that
> >>celebrate our genocide. We are committed to the active, open and
> >>public
> >>rejection of disrespect and racism in its various forms---including
> >>Columbus
> >>Day and Columbus Day Parades." For these last 17 years they have
> >>tried to
> >>educate the general public about their feelings for Columbus Day;
> >>they have
> >>protested, blockaded and gone to jail for their efforts to
>stop
> >>this parade
> >>of indoctrinated myth keepers.
> >>
> >>The issue of Columbus and Columbus Day is not easily resolvable in
> >>a society
> >>spoon feed on its propaganda of myths and historical lies that
> >>propagate the
> >>idea that Europeans were a superior race of two legged homo sapiens
> >>that
> >>came to save the Indians from their barbaric ways. The Europeans
> >>who came
> >>and settled invented and schooled the myth that they had created
> >>the New
> >>World by their imaged "discovery, " just as they had come to create
> >>the
> >>creation myth of its origins known as the "Bearing Strait Theory."
> >>Native
> >>Americans just had to have come from somewhere, but not the western
> >>hemisphere.
> >>
> >>What good
>does Columbus Day contribute by celebrating racist
> >>propaganda and
> >>myths that perpetuate genocide in institutions of education. Nazi
> >>Germany is
> >>perfect example of where such false, racist and opportunistic ideas
> >>lead.
> >>The most popularly believed myth of scholars is that Native
> >>Americans were
> >>Jews. Louis Hennepin, in his New Discovery of a Vast Country in
> >>America
> >>wrote, "These savages originally sprung from the Jews," because
> >>they lived
> >>"in a form of tents, like as did Jews" and they are "subtle and
> >>crafty as
> >>Jews."
> >>
> >>The first thought that crept to mind was that the encounter with
> >>the statue
> >>of Columbus must represent some sort of warning and I had better
> >>watch
>my
> >>step. Sure enough in 1996 I was teased back to Barcelona, Spain
> >>where I
> >>began a new life out of the reach of the FBI and the emergence of
> >>fascist
> >>rumblings in the States.
> >>
> >>Europe too, I felt, had a historical debt and there was social need
> >>to
> >>transmit that Indian cultures had not been completely destroyed. We
> >>still
> >>existed despite 500 years of genocide and so I founded an AIM
> >>museum to
> >>bring awareness of it to Europeans so that they would not forget.
> >>
> >>Robert Robideau is Co Director Leonard Peltier Defense Committee.
> >>He can be
> >>reached at: robertrobideau at yahoo.com
> >>
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