[kj] World Destruction

[B. Oliver Sheppard]

No, my point was you basically seem to be selectively defining stuff to 
suit an ideological agenda, facts be damned.

The "communist" countries you don't like also claim to be republics, 
etc., but for some reason, the "republic" part doesn't stick. Just the 
communist part. (You don't say "I hate republics because they make you 
fall into line with what The Party wants," etc.) Kind of a conveniently 
supple way to apply the  terminology.

What you described, about obeying the party line, etc., could also be 
said about Nazism, etc., which is different than communism, no? Whatever 
they call themselves, totalitarian systems are wrong/bad/etc. If 
communism means something like the Nazi Germany state, then I would hope 
no sane person would want anything to do with it. But "communism" as 
classically understood meant a stateless, classless society, a period 
reached after a socialist era. This idea was popular in many countries 
and in the West esp. during the Great Depression, when sharing the 
wealth seemed immensely appealing to folks living hand-to-mouth or in 
impoverished 3rd world nations. So a lot of parties cynically called 
themselves "communist," got peoples' support, and then once in power 
became as ruthless and oppressive as prior leaders. In other words, they 
misused the term, like the Nazis misused "socialism" when calling 
themselves National Socialists. But ideologues are eager to attach the 
terms to stuff they don't like.

-Oliver



Crack wrote:

>    Ok. So we ve established that countries are not always what they  

> call themselves. Unites states of America should not be called  

> "United" because  Canada is between itself and Alaska , also Hawaii  

> has a large sea which separates it from the mainland . I expect that  

> Chile is in fact quite warm , New Zealand is infact now quite old and  

> due to the amount if alcohol Eastern Europeans drink they should call  

> it *Thirsty* instead of Hungary.

>     United Kingdom will soon no longer be united as we're getting rid  

> of the Scots , all we have to do now is dump the Welsh and we will  

> have a country that we can be proud of.

>

>

> Quoting "B. Oliver Sheppard" <bigblackhair at sbcglobal.net>:

>

>   

>> Crack,

>>

>> Depends on what you mean by "communist" society. If you mean societies

>> that have called themselves communist, like Stalin's USSR, the Khmer

>> Rouge, etc., yeah, those regimes suck. But they cynically call

>> themselves "communist," in spite of their policies, not because of them.

>> Communism, at least as Marx meant it (and wasn't he some authority on

>> the matter?), was a classless, stateless society, which would come after

>> socialism -- and none of the examples you cited fit this bill. The USSR

>> also said they were a union of Republics, and North Korea says it is the

>> People's Democratic North Korea -- are either of them republics, or a

>> democacy? Of course not. SO why why believe it when they say they're

>> communist, then? Seems awfully selective. "North Korea says it is a

>> Republic, therefore I hate any and every country that calls itself a

>> Republic" -- that makes no sense.

>>

>> Ruling elites often use nice-sounding words to get people to go along

>> with them. Where/when socialist ideology is popular, people call

>> themselves "socialist" or "communist" appeal to folks. The National

>> Socialist Party of Germany (Nazis) -- that's some socialism, huh? Or the

>> People's Republic of China. Yeah, what a republic (representative

>> democracy) that is. What countries call themselves may or may not have

>> anything to do with what their true nature is. That includes the USA,

>> too, which also calls itself a republic. Because, you know, we did some

>> free trade capitalistically to get all the land here to ship our

>> freely-traded slaves in and such, to build our shining city on the hill,

>> etc., etc.

>>

>> -Oliver

>>

>>

>>

>>     

>

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