[kj] Ramones, punk rock hippy clothes horses

[bernies]

I can see the monkey's point but I think it's more likely that the Ramones were anti-hippy, though the slacker ethic certainly informed their very existence, just on different drugs. Have to disagree with Alex though. Punk has EVERYTHING to do with clothes. Or are we making a distinction between Punk and Punk Rock? If you want to take up the clothes issue just look at the Pistols (the original punk clothes horses) and especially the Clash (who elevated punk's clothes fetish to an artform).

Let's face it, it can't have been difficult to 'create' the sound of punk whoever did it (Ramones/Pistols/Dolls, fucking Swinging Blue Jeans for all I care). Punk WAS much more an attitude/image/way of life than just music. C'mon Alex, even the Ramones had their uniform. Punk was also very much of its time. There are no more punk bands (I mean, Green Day? Hello?).

As for Killing Joke being prog there are definitely prog elements creeping in around Night Time and beyond but I think Jaz's makeup was more Alex Harvey band than Peter Gabriel. Surely Ramones were just as much hippy as punk. Not a huge fan of the music but I like the more thoughtful stuff like Something to Believe In, Bonzo Goes to Bitburg era etc.

What do you guysh fink?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: P Bernardi 
  To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 
  Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 1:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [kj] Post Punk


  I know he's "taking the piss" but, Saying the Ramones were hippies cuz of long hair - thats like saying Killing Joke are prog rock cuz Jaz wore make up and so did Peter Gabriel.

  Alex Smith wrote:

Peter....

With all due respect, what you know about the Ramones couldn't fill a fuckin' condom.

...and Punk Rock has little to nothing to do with clothing.

Alex in NYC


-----Original Message-----
From: "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
Sent: Mar 24, 2005 4:29 PM
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>
Subject: Re: [kj] Post Punk

"The Ramones were about as close to the opposite of a hippy college band as
you can get."

  They had long hair,skin-tight nut showing trousers and plimsolls.
To qualify as "Punk",The hair had to come off and the shoes had to be Doctor
Martins(Or if you were nt hard enough......Monkey boots:-),They were an
offshot of the hippy era.
      Glenn Matlock created the sound of Punk when he penned the first
album.

                PW


----- Original Message -----
From: <GregSlawson at aol.com>
To: <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [kj] Post Punk


  In a message dated 3/24/2005 7:02:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
peter.west410 at ntlworld.com writes:

    But as The Ramones were really a Hippy college  band ,And dont qualify
as "punk"They can stay where they are.
    PW

      The Ramones were about as close to the opposite of a hippy college band as
you can get. They were blue-collar losers from Queens, NYC. And they
single-handedly

    

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