[kj] Jaz Coleman of Killing Joke talks Tool, cell phones, no longer drinking & more (Brooklyn Vegan)

[Paul]

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/jaz-coleman-interview-killing-joke-2019/

*Jaz Coleman of Killing Joke talks Tool, cell phones, no longer drinking &
more*

[image: Jaz 01.jpg]

On a bright and late Saturday morning in October that felt like a summer
afternoon, I drove to a high-end hotel in downtown Los Angeles to meet
face-to-face with Jaz Coleman, the well-known vocalist of post-punk
legends Killing
Joke. I jumped at the opportunity to interview a musician of such fame (and
equal infamy) that I’d been following since my college days in the
mid-2000s. Killing Joke had just begun a nation-wide jaunt opening for Tool
on their tour <http://www.invisibleoranges.com/tool-live-report/> for their
new album Fear Inoculum and, that night, Killing Joke would be playing in
front of a sold-out crowd at the 20,000-capacity Staples Center. Once at
the hotel, though, I was soon outside in a hedge-walled restaurant patio
sitting face-to-face with Coleman himself as he smoked a fat cigar
accompanied by a soda.

What I wish I had seen beforehand was former Invisible Oranges scribe Justin
M. Norton’s intro to one of his own interviews with Coleman
<http://www.invisibleoranges.com/interview-jaz-coleman-killing-joke/> many
years ago (here’s another
<http://www.brooklynvegan.com/jaz-coleman-interview-killing-joke-2019/%E2%80%9Dhttp://www.invisibleoranges.com/interview-killing-jokes-jaz-coleman/%E2%80%9D>,
and another
<http://www.brooklynvegan.com/jaz-coleman-interview-killing-joke-2019/%E2%80%9Dhttp://www.brooklynvegan.com/jaz-coleman-of/%E2%80%9D>).
Norton, back then, opined about Coleman that, “[an] interview with him
isn’t a series of questions by interviewer so much as an interrogation by
artist… your illusion that you are in control and asking the questions is
quickly dispelled.” A decade later, and I felt exactly how Norton described
as an assumed 20-minute interview turned into over an hour-long journey…
with Coleman very much at the helm.

To illustrate: before I even asked a question, Coleman took hearing I was a
journalist with BrooklynVegan as a jumping board to discuss what sort of
diets and farming would be required as a matter of sustainability in the
future. This led into a myriad of political issues including homelessness
in America, the military industrial complex, Trump and Brexit, the
practical survival merits for a tyrant to hold nuclear arms, globalism, and
his own thoughts on polycentric vs. unicentric global governance. For a
moment Coleman seemed to direct our wild ride back to the band. “So the
world is in a terrible state but that’s why we need Killing Joke. Something
I need, we need, and the world needs. I’ll tell you something, the next
album will be stratospheric. If the gods allow us to make it. Killing Joke
is meant to be here now. Killing Joke will rise, rise, and rise till you
see it’s our destiny. Our destiny to be at this stage in the world’s
development and the time of the sixth extinction period. We’re heading
towards tumultuous changes.”

Before I could continue on that path we were back at politics where talk
about globalism eventually led to the potential benefits of
multiculturalism. “I’m the product, being Anglo-Indian, of multiculturalism
and possibly a good mouthpiece for global governance because I belong
nowhere and everywhere.” However soon enough a sour note was perhaps hit in
the conversation as I felt a real turn in Coleman’s approach toward me. “I
don’t know what to say sometimes. Sometimes I’m sitting across from someone
who is interviewing me and they’re asking me a question while I’m thinking,
‘you know what, by asking that question you’re endangering my fucking life
if I answer honestly.’ There’s only one thing that saves me. I’m completely
fucking mad!”

Coleman, at that moment, shot up from the table and walked inside the
restaurant leaving me absolutely dumbfounded wondering if that was it for
the interview. A few minutes later he returned but immediately doubled down
on my bewilderment as he inquired what I believed happened during the
attacks of September 11th, 2001. Soon, as I said I wasn’t one for
“conspiracy theories,” he launched into a full verbal fury against me. He
lectured on about what he believed happened, with particular focus on the
collapse of Tower Seven, and began critiquing me personally saying I wasn’t
interested in the truth as it would risk my career in journalism. He
claimed my body language was portraying me as scared and flaky. The reality
for me being that I was simply unprepared for this level of confrontation
and likely appeared thoroughly shook. At some point I realized this had
become a bit of a sparring match and if I didn’t want the interview to end
in likely assured disaster I’d need to respond back with some force.

Eventually, the conversation calmed down and I no longer felt like a
bristling cat against a wall. I couldn’t tell how much of a fool I’d made
of myself then but at least the seemingly real threat of the interview
blowing up dissipated as Coleman continued with his thoughts and theories.
I kept in mind the interview might need to end sometime soon (as it turned
out, it continued for maybe another 30 minutes), so I made a final effort
to bring the discussion in focus on the band.

Upon inquiring if I could even ask such questions, Coleman showed a twinkle
in his eyes and grinned wide chuckling, “yeah sure, what would you like to
know?” I really couldn’t tell if everything that had just transpired was
just a wild game. Perhaps he was trying to test me or just have a bit of
fun seeing if he could make an interviewer crack. Regardless, I broached a
subject that immediately had Coleman reflective on a personal level.

— Joseph Aprill


Jaz Coleman - The Raven King (Visualiser) <https://youtu.be/sTX7X5GzGsw>



*Today [October 20th, 2019] is the anniversary of Paul Raven’s passing
[former bassist of Killing Joke who died of a heart attack in his sleep in
2007]. Do you still think about him often?*
Every day of my life I think about him. It’s more difficult than my father
passing. It’s difficult because I’d fallen out with him.


*Really?*
Oh massively.


*I thought I read you…*
We made up before he passed, but he had left us right in the shit. By no
means though does that change my enduring love for him.

His last album with you, Hosannas from The Basements of Hell…

That was such a dark album. You know one of the funny things that happened
to me in the last six or seven years is I’ll be in a bar where they’ll put
music on and I go, “This is great. What is it?” and they go, “It’s you!”
And I’ve never fucking heard it before. This has happened so many times, of
course that album is one of them and I never listen to it at all. I don’t
even know half of the songs on it. It was such a dark period. A very dark
period in Killing Joke’s career.


*I have to admit it was the album that got me into the band.*
[Laughs] I can honestly say there’s not a single member of Killing Joke
that listens to that album. It’s not because of the music as some of it is
beautiful on that record but it’s from such a dark time that we’ve got
terrible associations with it. I mean that was the last album I was
drinking on for a start. The thing about Killing Joke is that it allows me
to be honest with myself. So I process things, terrible things, and for
that album it was terrible. I mean I wanted to kill.


KILLING JOKE "Hosannas From The Basements Of Hell" (HD) Official Video
<https://youtu.be/Kaz9z_8Lwt8>



*Why do you think you were in such a dark place then?*
Well the alcohol sure didn’t help.


*Sure, though alcohol is usually a mask for deeper issues.*
Absolutely it absolutely is. You know what I can say is when I stopped
drinking it felt like I’d been away and come back. That was creepy, the
whole drinking experience. For me the drinking started around about 2002
and it finished in 2006. It felt intense after I stopped drinking. It felt
like I had been away and I don’t know what had been there in between but it
wasn’t altogether me. I think alcoholism is possession, like spiritual
possession. I didn’t have to do the AA thing or anything like that. It was
an oath. I’ve successfully gotten other people off alcohol as well since
then. You have to take an oath that you’ll never do it again and an oath
means forever so you have to take it seriously. If you want to give up
something just cast seven to eight days after a full moon by making an
oath. Then it’s done and liberated. That worked for me. I was drinking at
my height two or three bottles of spirits a day. I was close to death.


*You’ve done a few shows now already on the tour with Tool, so how has it
been so far?*
It’s been amazing. You know we’re playing to people who don’t really know
Killing Joke and that’s a great thing for by the time we finish every
night, my god, the place is rocking. It’s been amazing playing to a
completely new audience. A wonderful feeling.


*And these being at some of the biggest venues Killing Joke has likely ever
played in the US.*
Yeah, in the states for sure. When we go on the place is half full. By the
time we finish the place is packed and rocking. It’s humbling and
wonderful. Plus I like being finished really early [laughs].

Have you been able to watch Tool perform yet on the tour?

Sure. I’ve watched two of their sets so far. It’s funny when you look at
their setlist it’s only about nine songs on it but their songs are so long
[laughs]. We love the guys and have known them for 25 years just when they
started as well. They strike me as a band who’d do well to go to the Middle
East because one of the liberating things that I found in my life is
discovering Oriental and Arabian music. You know they start on one idea and
end on a different idea with the songs almost lasting an hour sometimes
with lots of changes. Tool’s music is like this. They don’t use sonata
form; you know introduction, verse, chorus, verse, development, and outro.
They strike me as a band inspired by Eastern principles before even being
there.


*You’ve talked before about your occult influences and members of Tool have
talked about their own as well. It’s certainly been a part of the
creativity of their songwriting, like using the Fibonacci sequence as the
basis for Lateralus, and I feel like they make it clear they’re influenced
in that way by bands like you guys.*
They’re so nice. Actually, they’ve amazed me in how far they’ve embraced
the mystery tradition. I’m always surprised when someone shows me something
that comes off their websites with the discussions being had and I think,
“Wow! At least some bands are really developing spiritually.” The other
thing I have to say to Tool fans out there is what a nice bunch of people
the members of Tool are. What kind human beings and you should be proud of
them. I know Danny and Maynard more as friends than anything and I
genuinely feel their love and support for what we’re doing. One of the
things though that everyone in Killing Joke feels is we’re really happy
with what we got and we don’t aspire to the stadium thing [laughs].


*Sort of like it being nice to drive the Ferrari but not own it and have to
do all the upkeep on it.*
The stadium thing has a place but I wouldn’t like to have built my life in
that world and never play the great venues we play.


*The last time I saw you was I think at The Regent [in Los Angeles]
probably a year ago.*
Oh yeah, that’s somewhere around here. I like those places and I’m happy
where I am with where Killing Joke are playing but it is nice to play these
huge places to people not familiar with Killing Joke. To have such a warm
and amazing reception from them. We’re basically winning because every
night we’re converting. It’s an amazing thing to move into something
different. Then to watch these poor bastards do two and half hour sets
[laughs].


*What do you think about Tool’s policy of “put your phone away or you’ll
get kicked out?”*
This has been inspirational. We’re gonna get our people to start stealing
people’s mobile phones too.


*Or kick them out if they do it?*
No, they’ll sell them afterwards [laughs]. When you go on stage and you see
loads of people looking at you through the prism of these fucking mobile
phones. Instead of being with their brothers and sisters in the now… I mean
I go along with it and will do as many selfies as people want. I go along
with it but I don’t like it.


*What do you think of this really global cultural trend of documenting your
life rather than living it?*
Enhancing the ego of the individual is a good way to control them. Anything
that blows the ego is considered good. I mean what’s the fucking point of
it. I don’t see any benefits in pushing brand Coleman everywhere [laughs].


The Wait (2005 Digital Remaster) <https://youtu.be/JhIl8uzJt0U>



*You’ve been touring the 40th anniversary for about two years now. Next
year is going to be 40 years since the debut self-titled LP. Are you going
to do anything for that?*
I hadn’t thought that far ahead. I don’t think that far ahead these days
because well… astrology shapes my life a lot. Bare in mind billionaires use
astrology not millionaires. So I‘m on the same page as billionaires when it
comes to what’s likely to happen. What we went through with the Cuban
missile crisis, ok I was only two years old when that happened, that’s
about to start again early next year for two years. A two year period of
complete global upheaval. Whatever that means. Could be Yellowstone or
could be fucking anything. God only knows.


*Is it the same vibe you got back in the 1980s?*
No, it’s worse. Much worse. Although in the early 1980s, 85% of young
people thought they wouldn’t last very long. We all thought we were gonna
go then. I’m glad we didn’t but the thing is there’s a sense of complacency
now. I hate to say it but something is going to happen. It’s written that
way.


*Will there be time for a Killing Joke album before it all ends?*
I don’t know. That’s a very good point and I think about that a lot. All I
can say is I’m glad I got Magna Invocatio done just in case there isn’t
time [Jaz Coleman’s upcoming November 29th release of orchestral reworkings
of Killing Joke’s songs as performed by the St. Petersburg Philharmonic].
The things I’m interested in are Earth communities which are part of
Killing Joke’s legacy. We have two in South America we’re in touch with and
I’m starting one in New Zealand. The whole self-sufficiency thing is very
important. “We have to dig for victory,” as Geordie Walker says. Every park
or backyard needs to be turned into food production. I had one interview a
few days ago and the guy interviewing me said, “you do realize there’s
probably only 60 harvests left.” I never really thought about it before and
all I could think was, “well at least I’ll have a 120 summers then if I
live that long.” [laughs]


[image: Jaz 02.jpg]


*Two summers because you travel between the hemispheres?*
I just try to avoid winter. I don’t like winter anywhere whereas big Paul
[Ferguson, drummer of Killing Joke] is the opposite to me where he can’t
stand summer anywhere. He loves permanent winter.

Are you that way because you don’t want to relive your childhood in terms
of the winters in England?

Oh, well they’re just damp and miserable. Expensive damp misery. That’s the
UK and you’re welcome to it.


*After nine years here [in Los Angeles], I kind of miss winter.*
[Laughs] That happens to a lot of people from the West Coast. I remember in
the 1980s you met a lot of punks from the West Coast and all they could
think about was listening to The Clash on cold dark foggy nights [laughs].
The reality is not as attractive as you might think.


*I mean I’ve been to Norway in February and I enjoyed it.*
Did you?


*Yeah. I enjoy all the black metal and everything from up there.*
Drinking slivovitz…


*I haven’t done that yet.*
[laughs] You like the black metal? Spiritually?

No, I do actually. It spiritually does connect. It’s something that… I’m
not necessarily a religious person but it’s something that I can’t describe
as just physical. It’s something beyond that.

High energy music to me and the spiritual virtues of it has gotten me to
where I am which is alive and still going. I think it’s good for us with
all this stuff and rock-‘n’-roll. Someone said to me, “You do realize
you’re one of the last professional bands.” I went, “What are you talking
about”, and he goes, “Well, most bands they have other jobs.” [laughs] None
of us have ever had a job, I tell ya. Never. Nothing. Unemployable.


*Well it’s not like you’ve only done the band. Clearly you’ve done
orchestral work and…*
I’ve done motivational lectures for IBM [laughs].


*Hopefully they paid you well.*
They did actually. You know I’ll pretty much have a go at anything. I
considered politics but I don’t see how anything good could come out of
politics. Especially with any artist or musician who has gone into
politics. Can you name any one who has done anything good ever? No, I can’t
and you probably can’t either. That’s because they haven’t done anything
good and the chances of me doing anything good in politics is just about as
remote as for them [laughs].

Killing Joke - Eighties <https://youtu.be/x1U1Ue_5kq8>

The discussion continued onward with Coleman expressing his views that Bill
Gates is an evil advocate of genocide via vaccinating the third world, then
how an increase in volcanic activity on Earth is likely to soon cause
tribulation to humanity. He elaborated that perhaps the cause might be the
gravitational pull of multiple rogue planets on unnoticed elliptical
courses or even an undetected brown dwarf star in our solar system. Just
then we were interrupted by a woman who I had noticed sitting a few tables
away from us for most of the interview but now clearly showed she had been
listening attentively as she offered her vocal support to Coleman and
encouraged him to continue proselytizing about such hidden truths.
Astutely, she found it ironic that Coleman and I were sitting under a sign
for the restaurant saying “Justice” [Urban Tavern]. She then asked if she
could get a photo with Coleman; he happily agreed, and I took the picture.

With the next interviewer having arrived for Coleman, it was time to
finally end the journey. I thanked Coleman and he embraced me with a big
hug and said not to take him too seriously. All of which I must say added
further to the rollercoaster ride of surrealism I had experienced; driving
from near accusatory interrogation of myself to cheerful welcoming
conversation. Before everything was said and done though I got in one more
question.


*Since Youth and Ferguson rejoined the band, reforming the original
line-up, you guys have been together longer now than you ever were the
first time. So what do you credit to you all sticking it out together as
long as you have now?*
Magick. I wouldn’t swap it for 60 more years on the planet and a billion in
cash. They are my arms and legs while I am theirs. We are one entity.
Nothing has any meaning unless it’s a shared experience. I had a number one
in this country for a 108 weeks. I remember when they told me after a 108
weeks, it gets taken off the charts, that is a classical record on the
classical charts. I remember thinking, “ah, I’ve done it now!” I put the
phone down and poured myself a whiskey… but there was no one there to party
with [laughs]!

Jaz Coleman’s upcoming release *A Gnostic Mass for Choir and Orchestra
Inspired by the Sublime Music of Killing Joke* will be out on November 29th
via Spinefarm Records.

Check out photos and a review from the Tool/KJ show at Barclays Center in
Brooklyn
<http://www.brooklynvegan.com/tools-psychedelic-fear-inoculum-tour-hit-barclays-center-review/>
.
Remaining tour dates below.

[image: Jaz 03.jpg]


*Tool / Killing Joke — 2019 Tour Dates*November 21st — Uncasville, CT —
Mohegan Sun Casino Arena
November 22nd — Atlantic City, NJ — Boardwalk Hall
November 24th — Raleigh, NC — PNC Arena
November 25th — Washington, DC — Capitol One Arena
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