[kj] Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38

Mike Cooper mike at coopersurf.fsnet.co.uk
Mon Jan 30 12:35:33 EST 2017

Kev,  are we not seeing here though not the control of borders but the
exclusion of people dependant on faith to a degree and country of origin?  I
am white and from the UK and allowed entry.  Mo Farah is also from the UK, a
knight of the realm but is  black, Muslim and probably not allowed entry.
Go figure!  How tight is the Canadian border?  This is all about race and
that is dangerously fascistic whatever you say or defend.


Alex has repeatedly said that this is just about Trump who is now in power.
If it makes it easier for your argument to refer back to Clinton et al fine,
but they are not president now and nowhere in any of the arguments has
anyone praised Obama. At least Clinton has got her chain of greeting card
shops to fall back on now. 


As for narcissistic quite right people are going batshit about this - is
this not "democracy" but I would wager that it is just everyday people from
milkmen to brain surgeons , just ordinary people who oppose Trump.  


But your comment yesterday about him not being a politician for me that is a
massive issue and I'm not interested in the views of a few anarchists on
this - its simpler than that and I am capable of making my own mind up.  But
firstly  so many MP's do have experience of business because they are all
rich and want to maintain that for themselves and their ilk, others mostly
of liberal or left wing views do it because they feel they can contribute to
their community.  But most politicians even those of a business background,
go through local politics and years understanding how it works - of course
this doesn't make the system right or smooth but it does give a degree of
accountability and scrutiny and it allows everyone to get involved if they
wish to.  Having said that it needs changing but at the moment we are not
focussing on that are we? 


So secondly  I work with politicians to a degree- in  my last job mostly and
in my current one to a much lesser degree thankfully, both those at a local
and occasionally at a national government  level and on the odd occasions
secretary of states, plus a guy on the team I am  currently working for is a
senior Tory councillor, full of crap politically but actually quite a good
bloke politics aside.  I have written hundreds of briefing notes or reports
for them , some speeches, had 100 of meetings with those from all parties,
dealt with emails and their phone calls as well as those from them or "their
team",. I've been on a government advisory committee, been humiliated in
public by them on a few occasions and had some good drinks with some and
laughs with others.   On the whole - arseholes but most are actually
ordinary family people, some are great, versatile, kind and caring people
who want to change for the better and some though will go a life time
without actually ever making the world a better place. But what I do see in
my  is that those with a greater vested interest are far more aloof, more
stubborn, more clique with their own kind and a bit more closed off. You see
that with the current UK government as well.


So knowing a bit about how they think, what makes them tick, why they become
politicians and it also helps to be able to see through them when needed and
accept actions in other cases.  Regardless of their politics I did what they
asked of me and respected when they asked for my input in my field, it is my
chosen profession and I am paid to do this - it is up to me to move on if I
am not happy (as I did in my last job).  BUT all of them have a degree of
political experience and the absolute crucial ability to know that a  good
number of people don't agree with you - it goes with the turf big time.
People will be rude to you, hate your views, call you things etc. as  much
as others will cheer you, praise you and so on.  You need to be able to
remain calm, in control and think. But above all you need to listen and
appreciate advice from people who do know what's what, listen to those
either in a government office, local council, the subject experts and most
importantly the people that they represent and then form policy and actions
accordingly.   In all my experience of these people and despite the ups and
downs all had a respect for the system they represented, the political
decorum and respect for others who don't agree.  Do you honestly see that in
Trump? Do you see any  political decorum or respect for the process he know
leads?  Change that process by all means but you do it democratically and
not just to suit you! 


So there my boring long winded opinion but it is clear Trump has NO ability
to do any of the above and that is a major problem for the US, global
harmony but more importantly the more ordinary people who will stand up to
him.  So therefore the better because it will reduce his ability to get away
with harmful right wing actions that WON'T benefit the working man or women,
EVER.  He is obviously a master of divide and rule, finds easy scapegoats
and he clearly thinks everyone loves him when they don't thus cannot cope
with people who have different views e.g. CNN. This is NOT the way to run a
country and if I were you I would be worried about his posts relating to the
inauguration as sooner or later if it does not sink in that people will
oppose his views the payback will get worse every time.  


But watch how he does not answer difficult questions, he dodges them and
that is also a worry - as soon he will stop allowing people to ask questions
that do not agree with his process.  Then look at how he bullies his wife,
other women and his peers losing their calming influence and restraint.  So
with that in mind you watch over the next 12 months at how he WILL take
steps to claim as much control for himself as he can as in that time the
bills he signed recently will be put to congress and given his own party are
already one week in grumbling etc. (remember his inability to listen) how
much democracy will be eroded, how much self-control will he exercise, who
will he take it out on. Chances are someone or some race will be made to pay
to maintain the air of power, control and arrogance. Those around him will
obey or face public humiliation and all this smacks of Hitleresque
dictatorship and is indeed for me disturbing.  Unfair comparison?  Maybe but
how much will be removed from the ordinary person in the process.


He says he wants to help the working man  and increase their wage etc. but
ask him if he want unions in the workplace or to give them a better say?
Surely the best way to get the ordinary man or women a better, fairer
workplace? We both know the answer to that - image a union at Trumps hotels
ha ha.


The real way to solve the world's problems is to remove the power of
corporations, reduce greed, reduce the emphasis on finance and banking,
reduce the gulf in rich and poor, pay a fair days wage for a fair days work,
fairer taxation , cooperative workplaces and focus on communities, good
infrastructure, public transport, cycling and walking, active lifestyles,
better housing, better towns/cities, sustainable employment, recreation, the
environment, sustainable energy and recycling, clean air, clean seas,
personal safety and compassion.  All of which are practical and despite
sounding pie in the sky doable - 




From: Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of kevin
Sent: 30 January 2017 13:54
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38


But Alex- Trump was elected after campaigning on what he was he has done
over the past few days.

People voted for this. I still don`t see how wanting to control borders into
a nation state is such a big

deal. Obama did just the same for twice the period of time (6 months) with
Iraq right??

They ( Trump-obama-Hillary-bernie-etc ect)have to be compared at some
point-otherwise its just  rejecting the possibility of making comparisons in
order to eliminate an avenue of argument IMHO.

BTW I think Bernie could have possibly beaten Trump but no they had to have
Hillary didn`t they- had to have their queen in there. Did you watch the
Young Turks election night coverage-one minute they are sitting there all
excited about her getting in and the next minute they are pissing their
pants and fuming about how such a terrible candidte coud have been chosen.

I think its a case of the whole media gaslighting themselves. Their campaign
against Trump ws so big that they ended up believing it themselves and
ignoring what was actually going on on the ground. 


I`ve been thinking about these words `infantile and nacissistic` and I can`t
help but to keep thinking about Aleister Crowley. Can I be the fist to make
the `counter culture` go absolutley batshit cazy by proclaining Trump an
advent of the Aeon of Horus-The crowned and conquering child.. 


And Alex-I`m sorry your post has been blocked. I can totally get why you
don`t like Trump and why you are upset at the moment but in my view a lot of
this is just being whipped up by the media and associated shills ligned to
Clinton/Obama/Soros/Brezinski cabal- it reminds me of these `riots` we had
in the UK in 2011-that was just a local disturbance that could have been
shut down in about half an hour (I was there- I cycled right through it )
but the media started broadcasting it live all over TV and then it went
viral. I know a lot of people have got genuine issues with Trump but this
kind of mass movement against him - which appears to be a kind of wierd
chimera of a kind of politically correct Puritan movement and the Witch
trials (visually resembling something from a Hieronymous Bosch painting)-
just looks like a kind of insane mass hysteria from where I`m sittiing


""In his first ban, according to a search of White House records, Obama
instituted a ban on "immigrants or nonimmigrants" covered by a larger United
Nations travel ban. He also included those on an economic sanctions list.
Most countries were Muslim.

He cited the very same section of law that many critics of his policies have
asked him to use, "section 212(f) of the
<http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/section/immigration> Immigration and
Nationality Act of 1952." It says, "Whenever the president finds that the
entry of aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be
detrimental to the interests of the United States, the president may, by
proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the
entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or non-immigrant's
or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be

He used the same provision five other times, one more in 2011, twice in 2012
and twice in 2014. In those, he targeted people aiding Iran, Syria, Crimea,
and those involved in war crimes.""



 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNu4xU9qOEM> YouTube


and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.





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gathering-request at misera.net <gathering-request at misera.net>
Sent: 30 January 2017 06:24
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Gathering Digest, Vol 168, Issue 38 


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The Gathering - Digest

Today's Topics:

   1. Response to Kevin's Trump support (Alexander Smith)


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2017 17:56:30 -0500
From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
        <gathering at misera.net>
Subject: [kj] Response to Kevin's Trump support
Message-ID: <D7D3A857-192E-436D-ADBA-D11EA4F8F3BB at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Weirdly, my response was blocked and subject to moderator approval because
the thread is too big, so here?s just my response to Kevin?s last answer
(pasted below mine).

Again ? this isn?t about Obama, this isn?t about Hilary and this isn?t about
Bernie. Stop comparing them and alluding to them. This is about Trump, and
all that he represents, and everything he?s bringing on board. 

I?m stunned that someone can look at Trump?s actions of the past few days
and still entirely okay with it. But, ? maybe you don?t live here?

In any case, I did ask, and you did answer, so thanks for that. I should
probably let it go right there.

Alex in NYC

Kevin?s answer:

Yeah, I can see why someone would see Trump as infantile because he often
acts kind of like a cab driver but I like that about him. He is genuine and
not reading off a teleprompter. I and virtually everyone I know can be
infantile-its part of being human, I can`t knock someone for being a regular
guy-that`s what I want to see. putin can be infantile sometimes but that guy
is a fucking leader. As far as narcissism goes half the world is in a state
of narcissism as far as I can tell. There is an enormous percentage of young
people who just want to be `famous` with no other aim than that. Trump just
strikes me as being one of those guys who likes to flaunt his wealth like a
Frank Warren or a David Sullivan. Personally I have no problem with people
like that-that lifestyle is not for me but if someone is into all that then
thats their right to live how they want if they can achieve it. This guy
employs thousands of people and makes a real difference to their lives- he
has built shit for 
 most of his life- what the fuck has Obama ever done apart from feather his
own nest and slither up the political ladder with his globalist agenda
driven backers like Zbigniew Brezinski. And Obama has to be the most
narcissistic person I have ever seen
Mr `has anybody got a bottle of water` Obama.
This is another thing with trump- he is painted as this awful person- well I
don`t see how someone so bad and secretly degenerate could raise 2 sons who
can go on national TV and have respectful and erudite debates with
professional talking heads and come out on top. Those kids of his are
disciplined and  well raised-they are not my kind of person but they are
clearly not the offspring of some arsehole narcissist as opposed to Paris
Hilton or something. 
They wheeled out that old hippy Richard Branson a while ago who was going on
about a meeting he had with trump and how Trump was the most vindictive
person he had ever met and how awful it would be to have such a vindictive
person in the White house- since he got in he has not shown evidence of that
accusation- in fact the two people that I thought he was going to go after,
Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz have not been on the recieving end of anything from
Trump as far as I know. 
He had the whole of the GOP against him and trying to stop him and he has
just brushed that off and got on with it like a businessman.
And yes jim you are right-they did attack Clinton but thats just the
campaign, thats politics, the point i was making is that every media outlet
worldwide-even the traditional Republican party -didn`t want him to win-You
go and watch the second debate he had with Clinton- AnerCIAon Cooperhas
clearly got an agenda to bring down Trump-its written all over his face- he
is looking at Trump like he is going for him but at the same time he is
petrified of him. In my univers that debate would be made into a film. That
was one of the most incredible things Ive ever seen.
Any yeah Alex-his first week has been strange to say the least-just imagine-
a candidate getting in and then proceeding to do what he said he was going
to do in his campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUipvrMYw9g <


 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUipvrMYw9g> Obama and the Fake Fainting
Fainters Who Faint


Judge for yourself.


 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUipvrMYw9g> Obama and the Fake Fainting
Fainters Who Faint


Judge for yourself.

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