[kj] Back to the Bogside ...Case Solved!
gingoblin at easynet.co.uk
gingoblin at easynet.co.uk
Thu Apr 14 14:00:41 EDT 2016
Brilliant Paul, I love this sorta thing!
Maybe I'll go back to researching where the Punk's Not Dead wall is in
Edinburgh... hmm, perhaps not...
Dave in Edinburgh
On 13/04/2016 21:32, Paul wrote:
> I'm not done yet ...lol
>
> I think I have it cracked. With the help of a friend in Derry, Google
> Maps and perseverance! 😎
>
> I was not able to let it go, so I asked a lad I know, who is an
> amature photograpeher and lives in Derry, where he thought it might
> be. He immediately said "that's up at Little Diamond". We already knew
> it was in the Bogside <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogside> area and
> this is indeed in that area, on the way up to the Cregan and the
> topography of the area matches. It's a small stretch of road at the
> top of William Street, where the soldiers running picture was taken.
> I found this old picture online <http://i.imgur.com/SiZxO5B.jpg> and
> was able to focus on the top right hand corner
> <http://i.imgur.com/PF4Txvf.png>, bear in mind this picture is from a
> year later and taken as part of the inquiry into Bloody Sunday
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29>, which
> happened August '72, but still shows a wasteland area. This turns out
> to be the old sorting office. So today that area looks like this
> <http://i.imgur.com/uPJrjx1.jpg> (very bottom on left is where City
> Cabs is from other picture) and a little closer like this
> <http://i.imgur.com/wGLMWKx.jpg>. I'm not sure when the swimming pool
> was built, but it could be what was the old sorting office building,
> which was burnt out.
>
> So fellow Gatherers, without further adieu, I present to you, what
> will be from this day henceforth, known as The KILLING JOKE wall!
> <http://i.imgur.com/OMHGpP0.jpg> or what's left of it ...lol Maybe
> someone with better PhotoShop skills than I, can do an overlay of the
> Killing Joke, album cover on to the picture, but to my mind it all
> checks out.
>
> I shall still refrain from giving my own opinion on The Troubles, as
> it's a pointless exercise, that just stirs up old grievances and
> emotions. Not something that will go away, but let's just be thankful
> for things as they are. There is peace in Ireland, for now and long
> may it last.
>
> I too enjoyed the look back and to be honest was amazed at the amount
> of photographs and videos online documenting a time in history, that
> is still hard to believe happened in our lifetime. I'll be up that way
> in June, as part of this <http://www.ventureoffshorecup.com/>, so will
> try get a snap at the angle of the original and maybe get a gang of
> lads to jump off it lol I've also asked the mate, to take a picture
> too, so hopefully will have that soon, but in meantime Google Maps
> <https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Westland+St,+Londonderry,+Derry+BT48+9EU,+UK/@54.9979733,-7.3274572,3a,15y,358.8h,91.08t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211sNeOR_V2z-xp6GrppxRayGg%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m2%213m1%211s0x485fe179982200c1:0xa72a669f8224d865>,
> will have to do.
>
> If you've not seen the rest of Don McCullin's, photos from Derry in
> '71, try here
> <https://www.nationalgalleries.org/collection/artists-a-z/m/artist/don-mccullin/object/the-bogside-londonderry-northern-ireland-ar01187>,
> were picture 16/17, confirms the pictures location. Also you might
> like Clive Limpkin's
> <http://www.ucd.ie/photoconflict/gallery/northernireland-thebattleofbogside/>,
> pictures from around the sametime. One of which ended up being a mural
> on a gable down by the Free Derry Wall
> <https://www.google.ie/maps/@54.9958896,-7.3269076,3a,75y,183.2h,89.59t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211sowP1NQUYExn2NCCU0k8jHg%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%216m1%211e1>.
> Which incidentally looked like this <http://i.imgur.com/jkLtLKb.jpg>
> circa '71 (and this <http://i.imgur.com/kfsxITn.jpg>). Some other
> blurb on them here <http://clivelimpkin.com/tag/londonderry/>. The
> movie '71 <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2614684/> too, gives a good
> look at the north at that time and a different perspective, albeit
> fiction.
>
>
> Anyway hope this helps you Alex, and rest of Gatherers enjoyed it. I'm
> not going to bother put this on Facebook, but if anyone else wants
> too, by all means do. Look forward to reading your blog too Alex 👍
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12 April 2016 at 18:27, Brendan Quinn <bq at soundgardener.co.nz
> <mailto:bq at soundgardener.co.nz>> wrote:
>
> Cheers Paul, enjoyed the stroll back in time. The seventies are
> receding back into the past at quite a clip now innit, esp. with
> the passing of Bowie and Lemmy, amongst others.
>
> I’d heave a heavy sigh, but the old lungs aren’t up to it ;)
>
> *From:* Gathering [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net
> <mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net>] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> *Sent:* Monday, 11 April 2016 7:39 a.m.
> *To:* Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net
> <mailto:vassifer at earthlink.net>>; A list about all things Killing
> Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net <mailto:gathering at misera.net>>
> *Subject:* Re: [kj] Back to the Bogside
>
> Link to pic https://i.imgur.com/9EIxjph.jpg (To big to embed in
> email on the list)
>
> Not "the" picture, but from same series and quiet possibly same
> riot, is this McCullin, photo.
>
> Just out of boredom, I was able to pinpoint it to William St,
> Derry. The building the soldiers are running past, is gone, just a
> market stall there now.
>
> The open door is to a company that was called City Radio Cabs and
> as can be seen in the picture, had a phone number 4466. The
> company is still there just at the back of where the stall is in
> the lower picture and called City Cabs now, but still has the same
> last 4 digits in their number. The A D that can be seen, is
> from Br*/ad/*ley & McLaughlin undertakers, who still trade on the
> other corner of the street.
>
> As you can see all the buildings are relatively new, possibly 80s.
>
> So again, to try hunt down the exact position of the album cover
> photo, would be next to impossible, unless you had been there as
> such.
>
> I do hope you have more luck though, if you follow it up Alex.
>
>
>
>
> On 8 April 2016 at 23:57, Paul <dubecho at gmail.com
> <mailto:dubecho at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On further examination of the picture, the wall itself, looks
> like footings or foundations for a building.
>
> You can see what looks like bent rebars, on the tops. So would
> be a substantial building or most likely a block of low flats,
> 3 or 4 storeys.
>
> A lot of these were built in the 70s, because in this
> particular part of the city, large amounts of houses were
> burnt out for one reason or another, will leave that aspect to
> another day : ) Interesting and long history.
>
> Also, the amount of building materials, particularly roof
> ridge tiles, on the ground, would lead one to think it was a
> building site anyway.
>
> The only other identifying parts to buildings are the shutters
> on the gable of one of the houses. This is possibly a shop,
> but many such shops in that part of the Bogside, but again may
> well be long gone. Or may not even be a shutter at all and
> just a corrugated zinc panel/sheets, they would have been used
> to shore up burnt out houses. I've looked at other pictures
> taken by the photographer at around the same time and although
> features recognisable, they are just other parts of the same
> area and long since changed.
>
> So sorry, I can be of no help. Best bet would be ask the
> man Don McCullin, himself. He is 80 and lives in Somerset. He
> still exhibits, so may well be contactable, a chance to use
> your journalistic sleuthing skills : )
>
> Only other thing I can think of is ask one of the Undertones,
> a band formed in that very place, not to many years after : )
>
> On 8 April 2016 at 22:51, Paul <dubecho at gmail.com
> <mailto:dubecho at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Bogside, Derry, County Derry : ) It comes from the Irish
> for a line of oak trees, Doire.
>
> Will have a look later and see if anything that stands out
> and might be able to use Google maps, but to be honest, I
> would not hold out much hope, as the original picture was
> from sometime in the 70s, when the troubles were still
> ongoing, but Derry, as with other cities in the north, has
> had a huge amount of work done in building and
> regeneration of areas hit hard, and the Bogside was one
> place that did get it bad unfortunately. Looks like it was
> in one of the housing estates (projects) too and them
> streets are identical for huge parts of the city.
>
> Nice full size of original
> http://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/work/AR/AR01193_10.jpg
>
> On 8 April 2016 at 22:39, Alex Smith
> <vassifer at earthlink.net <mailto:vassifer at earthlink.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Been attempting to compose a longer piece on my silly
> blog about Mike Coles' iconic artwork for the fist
> Killing Joke album, and it got me thinking ..... does
> that very spot (the wall depicted in the shot)....
> still exist today?
>
> As I understand it (and please jump in if you know
> more), the original photograph by revered war
> photographer Don McCullin was snapped circa 1971 in an
> area known as The Bogside in Londonderry, Northern
> Ireland. It depicts a "gang of boys" fleeing a CS gas
> attack .... as one would.
>
> I cannot help wondering if that wall is still
> standing, moreover if anyone has tracked it down to do
> a sort "then and now" juxtaposition.
>
> I first spotted the original McCullin photo in a huge
> book several years back in a photo book store in SoHo,
> NY (sadly long gone ... now a lingerie emporium) and
> letting out an audible gasp. I remember being
> disappointed that it did not, in fact, feature the
> words KILLING JOKE scrawled menacingly across the
> brickface.
>
> Are there any Irish Gatherers who might know more?
>
> -Alex in NYC
>
>
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