[kj] punk

[Alexander Smith]

Och! Sorry, Rob -- I'm not in a fighting or gloating mood today --  
it's too damn humid here in NYC. And I as get older, the whole "who  
invented punk" argument seems mooter and mooter .... if that's a  
proper word.

Alex in NYC


On Sep 8, 2012, at 3:04 PM, Rob Moss wrote:


> I was agreeing with you you big flouncey Ramones T shirt wearing old  

> Queen!

>

> I thought you would be happy , that finally I agree with you that  

> punk really did come from the USA. I expected a great big fat HA!  

> From you.

>

> And what do I get?

>

> A fucking handbag you big blouse!

>

> Ever get the feelin you've been cheated?

>

>

>

> Xxxxxx

>

> On 8 Sep 2012, at 18:55, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>  

> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> I'm not going to get sucked into this further. You can cite  

>> "England's Dreaming" in much the same way I can cite "Please Kill  

>> Me."

>>

>> Alex in NYC

>>

>>

>> On Sep 8, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Rob Moss wrote:

>>

>>> For all the piss take I have done in the past I have to kind of  

>>> agree.

>>>

>>> There was something happening in the UK anyway, look at the pub  

>>> rock scene, but without Talcy Malcy going to the states and  

>>> getting off on the scene there, we would not have had the  

>>> orchestrated movement we had in the UK.

>>>

>>> The basis was different for sure. American punk came out of the  

>>> post Woodstock/Vietnam war thing. Ours came out of the post war  

>>> depression.

>>> The Ramones sang about girls. The Pistols about boredom and Anarchy.

>>> They were not the same thing but without Mclaren going to states,  

>>> it would have been a different thing in the uk. More rooted in old  

>>> British RnB.

>>> Bands like The stranglers and the Blockheads would have come along  

>>> and done their thing but they would have been different,  

>>> especially the Stranglers.

>>>

>>> What came after 1976/77 though was awful. The UK OI! Scene was  

>>> hideous and that American punk circa 1984 was shit. Only band to  

>>> move me out of America were Dead Kennedys. Rancid and their ilk  

>>> leave me cold.

>>>

>>> Anyway. Read England's Dreaming. That is pretty much how it was.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> By the way.

>>>

>>> Today, saw two kids busking Eagles songs in Oxford.

>>> Punk failed.

>>>

>>> Discuss.

>>>

>>>

>>> On 8 Sep 2012, at 14:06, Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>  

>>> wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> I can't believe this is still going.

>>>>

>>>> Rob Moss re-invoked it as a jest, .... and it's predictably taken  

>>>> off again.

>>>>

>>>> Listen, ask one of your justifiably-revered stalwarts of British  

>>>> punk -- Strummer, Vanian, Simonon, Jones, etc. etc. pick one --  

>>>> and invariably *BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION* they'll say that the  

>>>> Yanks started it. YES, the Brits *TOOK IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND MADE  

>>>> IT THEIR OWN*, ..... but it started in the States.

>>>>

>>>> I'm not making it up.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Alex in NYC

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Sep 7, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Rheinhold Squeegee wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> The Dolls date to 1971 and the Stooges to 1967. This discussion  

>>>>> doesn't even take into account the US garage band scene of the  

>>>>> 1960's: Seeds, Standells, Sonics, etc. Check out Lenny Kaye's  

>>>>> "Nuggets" series for further enlightenment.

>>>>>

>>>>> It is well documented that the UK punk scene was established  

>>>>> after exposure to existing American (read: NYC) punks, i.e  

>>>>> Ramones first gig at the Roundhouse in July '76 and Malcolm  

>>>>> McLaren's trip to NYC in '72 where he met the NY Dolls and where  

>>>>> he copped the ripped t-shirt and safety pin look from Richard  

>>>>> Hell. McLaren returned to the UK in 1975, opened the "SEX"  

>>>>> boutique and applied his learnings to the exploitation of the  

>>>>> Sex Pistols. The majority of early UK punks were either someone  

>>>>> who saw the Sex Pistols/Buzzcocks in a university lunchroom or  

>>>>> pub rockers with new haircuts, a la Joe Strummer.

>>>>>

>>>>> to wit:

>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvDeee14dEA

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> From: folk.devil at hotmail.com

>>>>> To: gathering at misera.net

>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 09:55:58 -0700

>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>>>>>

>>>>> The Saints formed in 1975. That puts them chronologically next  

>>>>> to the Dolls. They were Australian. What about Bolan, or the UK  

>>>>> Garage bands of the early 70s...

>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8685349@N07/

>>>>>

>>>>> From: paulwady at hotmail.com

>>>>> To: gathering at misera.net

>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 12:34:44 +0100

>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>>>>>

>>>>> From my previous email:

>>>>>

>>>>> 1 - The very term PUNK was an AMERICANISM in the 1970's.  It was  

>>>>> adopted by UK people around that time.  Even then lets face it,  

>>>>> people still don't use it in Blighty for its original meaning  

>>>>> today.  They didn't then?  It is entirely associated with a  

>>>>> style from the late 70/s early 80/s best time of all for crude,  

>>>>> sincere rock music.

>>>>>

>>>>> 2 - There was this band called the New York Dolls.  Assume  

>>>>> everyone here does not know them on account of Morrissey running  

>>>>> their UK fanclub, and thus everyones kept a distance...what  

>>>>> difference does it make??

>>>>>

>>>>> 3 - James Osterberg.  Like anyone here needs to know what  

>>>>> pseudonym he resides on the UK's bedroom walls under?  (Not  

>>>>> forgetting Scottish trainspotters...)

>>>>>

>>>>> 4 - Eddy and the Hot Rods.  Okay okay, sorry sorry.  But I had  

>>>>> to remind y'all just how bad things where then.  WE HAD THE  

>>>>> ****ING OSMONDS ON THE RADIO...ON TOP OF THE POPS...TV  

>>>>> SPECIALS...LOOK IN AND THE MAGAZINES AND THE PAPERS...  This was  

>>>>> surely the closest our generation ever got to living through the  

>>>>> Blitz?  It was hell in there.  Hell.  You'd walk down the road  

>>>>> and your contemporaries and those a bit older had FLARES and  

>>>>> MULLETTS.  Me?  I still have flashbacks.  (Wake up in the middle  

>>>>> of the night screaming CRAZY HORSES!!!  WAAAH!  WAAH!  So  

>>>>> America does have a lot to answer for.  Salt Lake City - capitol  

>>>>> of trauma etc).

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> I am very sorry to bring up the things we'd all rather forget.   

>>>>> (Donnie.  Marie.  Jesus....)  But the Sex Pistols did it their  

>>>>> way, and we all love them for it.  They did not invent it but  

>>>>> good god did they do it brilliantly.  Even the Rolling Stones  

>>>>> were described as a "Dartford Delta Blues band" recently.  The  

>>>>> Beatles were surely partially due to their living in a  

>>>>> transatlantic seaport?  Sailors selling the lp's they'd picked  

>>>>> up in the USA you see?

>>>>>

>>>>> So...they gave it to us...and we improved it and sold it back to  

>>>>> them?  Tee hee.  x

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Free download album:  http://linearobsessional.bandcamp.com/album/the-terminal-beach

>>>>>

>>>>> PAULWADY.COM

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

>>>>> To: gathering at misera.net

>>>>> Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2012 16:35:19 +1200

>>>>> Subject: Re: [kj] punk

>>>>>

>>>>> Okay, are we all agreed on Kyuss, yeah?

>>>>>

>>>>> Anyone NOT like Kyuss…? Seriously?

>>>>>

>>>>> Okay let’s just put an album on….

>>>>>

>>>>> NO MAN!!!

>>>>>

>>>>> No, fuck’s sake, just put an alb-

>>>>>

>>>>> No man it was my turn tu-

>>>>>

>>>>> Fuckin, just put a FUCKIN album on man

>>>>>

>>>>> Fuckin not Soundga-

>>>>>

>>>>> What?! Fuckin….why not? It’s fuckin awes-

>>>>>

>>>>> NOT FUCKING SOUNDGARDEN, MAAAAAN!!!!! O-KAY?!?!?!?!

>>>>>

>>>>> Jesus.

>>>>> What.

>>>>> EVER.

>>>>>

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>>

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