[kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

[The Exorcist]

You've got a fine point there! My bad.

At 04:57 PM 2/16/2010, Brendan wrote:

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>

>Complaining about conspiracy theories on a Killing Joke forum is 

>akin to lamenting the fact that Geordie doesn't 'let loose on some 

>wild fuckin' solos'

>

>From: gathering-bounces at misera.net 

>[mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of The Exorcist

>Sent: Wednesday, 17 February 2010 6:48 AM

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>

>Your inability to make one single focused argument is amazing!

>As is your inability to stick to one of your own previous statements.

>

>Who said anything about jealousy? I pointed out that they are not 

>poor miserable scabs as you make them out to me.

>  the corruption within the union and the greed for power in union politics.

>

>Now, let us see the genius that is Greg Slawson.

>

>"Did it ever occur to you that if one group gets better salary/work 

>conditions etc, it sets the bar higher for OTHER groups of workers?"

>Now in the previous Email you stated the following.

>" But they made the mistake of using purely economic motivations 

>(pay bonuses) (called the Stakanovite system or something)."

>&

>"In fact, all the teachers I know are agaisnt Obama & Co's plans to 

>bring "merit pay" to teachers who boost test scores the most  (many 

>think it's a scheme to bust teachers unions too). " 

>HUH!!!!????  Psssssst... The Teachers unions are just afraid of accountability.

>

>Actually the Europeans may be living on borrowed time and money. As 

>the populations grow the benefits (or money for the benefits) will 

>continue to diminish.

>It's nothing to do with labor unions as much as the type of social 

>system in place. Many European countries are quite stagnant from

>an economic perspective. (It will be interesting to see how the Euro 

>plays out as well.) However this is all up for interpretation and debate.

>

>("Membership in France's labor unions accounts for approximately 5% 

>of the private sector work force and is concentrated in the manufacturing,

>transportation, and heavy industry sectors. Most unions are 

>affiliated with one of the competing national federations, the 

>largest and most powerful of which are the communist-dominated 

>General Labor Confederation (CGT), the Workers' Force (FO), and the 

>French Democratic Confederation of Labor (CFDT)."

>

>

>The amount of federal money is falling? Is that because there is a 

>big cabal against teachers or because the feds don't have an

>unlimited amount of money to give? Especially when the US spending 

>per child as astronomical compared to others. Now recently

>the Obama administration did offer money but lots of the unions 

>turned it down because it would "interfere" with their system.

>Whatever ever happened to the mantra "do it for the children"? You 

>of course found this to be a big conspiracy. (As you do with everything

>else.)

>

>Naturally you'll talk about the military impacting City and State 

>run programs; but why, I have no clue. There is no connection.

>Just like there wasn't any connection in your previous email about 

>public sector tax payer jobs and private ones.

>(Are you also implying that the school system be under rule and 

>thumb of the gov's as opposed to localities? If they're going to

>dump more wads of cash I'm sure they'll want some control/regulation 

>over what happens to it.)

>

>Thank you for telling me I'd make a great CEO. I take pride in that.

>

>However regarding your nonsensical rants and horribly though out 

>arguments that contradict each other within 3 emails

>scares the bejesus out of me.

>

>Ps. Stop with the friggin conspiracy theories, isn't it time you 

>grew up a bit?

>

>At 01:22 PM 2/16/2010, GREG SLAWSON wrote:

>

>So are you basically jealous that teachers have benefits/vacations, 

>etc? Did it ever occur to you that if one group gets better 

>salary/work conditions etc, it

>sets the bar higher for OTHER groups of workers? Why do Europeans 

>generally have much better fringe benefits, hours, etc. than US 

>workers? Could it be b/c the unions

>are STRONGER, and there are more strikes?

>And you're right about how most $ for teacher salaries come from 

>city and state, but the amount from the feds has been falling over 

>the years, and it has

>made a difference. At my middle-class school, they plan to lay off 

>about 20% of the teaching staff next year. Is that a good thing? And 

>yes, I will talk about the military--how

>about if they lay off 20% of their workforce?

>You'd make a great corporate CEO--you think just like them.

>

>

>----------

>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:49:50 -0500

>From: killingjoke at theimmortalfool.com

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>

>I can give you many more examples as well.

>

>1 in 20 is acceptable for you? Whatever happened to accountability?

>

>I also fail to understand how you can compare teachers which are 

>paid for by the public (via taxes)

>to corporations which are private/semi-private entities and are 

>accountable only to the head honcho or to the investors that choose to

>invest in it.

>

>Teachers barely earn enough to survive?

>I wouldn't call this barely.

><http://schools.nyc.gov/Offices/DHR/TeacherPrincipalSchoolProfessionals/Salary/Salary+Step+and+Differential+Schedules.htm>http://schools.nyc.gov/Offices/DHR/TeacherPrincipalSchoolProfessionals/Salary/Salary+Step+and+Differential+Schedules.htm 

>

>

>Don't forget all holidays are off, and paid summers. Plus if you 

>work (teaching) during the summer your salary gets an increase for 

>the duration.

>Add on more credits and you get another bump up.

>Then throw in tenure after only 3 years (Best damn job security 

>ever! Even if you fuck up big time.)

>plus medical benefits and it's actually quite decent.

>Now add on retirement pension plans + cost of living increase.

>

>Those poor poor folks! I wonder how many people on this list have 

>job security after 3 years.

>

>For every example you can give me of teachers fired for "no reason" 

>I can give you more that should've been fired and

>are kept around.

>

>Hmmmm, how about this one? Get paid $100,000.00 (Tax payer $$$) a 

>year for doing... Wait for it... Wait for it... Absolutely nothing!

><http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/bounce_rubber_flubbers_MrL9ZhEGshrv2H5ToVTxUK>http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/bounce_rubber_flubbers_MrL9ZhEGshrv2H5ToVTxUK 

>

>

>And here is the article by the New Yorker.

><http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/08/31/090831fa_fact_brill>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/08/31/090831fa_fact_brill

>

>You can read more about union cover up and bullshitting in the above 

>article, as well as teachers who claimed to be

>unduly fired/punished/released. And what you basically get out of 

>the article is that it's one big clusterfuck.

>

>The unions have lots of power and political clout, they give out 

>quite a chunk of change to many politicians. Planting cue cards at 

>hearings? Check!

><http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/08/31/090831fa_fact_brill>http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/08/31/090831fa_fact_brill

>

>And there is so much more...

>

>Please don't try to pull the "poor little innocent union" crap with me.

>You can do it to others that don't read up on this but I won't let it fly.

>

>Everything by you is an attack on the little guy, the war mongers, 

>the this, the that. Plenty (most) of the money comes from 

>local,state and regional pockets

>not DC. (The teachers contract negotiations and powers are not 

>implemented nor negotiated by Washington.)

>

>

>At 11:03 PM 2/15/2010, GREG SLAWSON wrote:

>THat IS interesting. Every teachers union I've read about hates the 

>idea. And the article from LA weekly is a classic case of taking a 

>few extreme examples--by

>the articles own admission, about 1 in 20 teachers suck--and making 

>a huge case of it. How many corporations have at least 1 out of 20 

>workers who stink, but are

>not fired? What about the financiers who wrecked the US 

>economy--some of them now in the Obama administration--and not only 

>were not fired, but grew even

>richer? Most of the right wing goons like West will let them off the 

>hook, and attack a few teachers who barely earn enough to survive 

>(in the US anyway). Another thing these bullshit "news" articles 

>don't mention is that for the first 3 years of a teacher's career, 

>they can be fired FOR ANY REASON, no questions asked, until they get 

>tenure. There was a teacher at my school who was fired after 2 years 

>for loosing a student's homework. He used to stay late after school 

>every day giving extra help, and used his free period to tutor kids. 

>I knew another extremely smart and dedicated teacher who was fired 

>after one year for sending warning notices to all his students, in 

>order to shake them up a bit. ANd the rules are changing to give 

>principals more power to fire even tenured teachers. There is a 

>wholescale attack on teachers unions--currently the largest unions 

>in the US, which has an extremely rapidly declining union 

>membership--by local, state, and fed government. It's yet another 

>way to attack ordinary working people in order to fund the huge 

>military budget (larger than that of all other countries in the 

>world combined, and over half the total US budget).

>

>

>----------

>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:14:39 -0500

>From: killingjoke at theimmortalfool.com

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>Interesting, in Colorado teachers had recently voted to employ merit pay.

>Not having merit pay is simply a very good tactic to keep all the 

>teachers in-line and not shake up the teachers union (like the AFT/UFT).

>Since all teachers in the union be they good, bad, average or 

>exceptional have equal votes you can just imagine the havoc it would

>wreak were they to introduce merit pay. Pitting one group of union 

>members against another is bad union politics.

>The union is all about money (for itself) and power (power in 

>numbers); to have anything rock the boat is a big no no.

>For a semi-lenghty read on the bullshit that goes on in the teachers 

>unions feel free to read the linked article below.

>This is one of the latest I've come across.

><http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-11/news/lausd-s-dance-of-the-lemons/>http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-11/news/lausd-s-dance-of-the-lemons/

><http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-11/news/lausd-s-dance-of-the-lemons/>

>

>

>

>

>At 07:06 PM 2/15/2010, GREG SLAWSON wrote:

>Sorry Sade, I must have been mixing up 2 different emails. And yes, 

>I meant competition! One more point about the 'exceptional' issue--

>communism doesn't mean that no one could ever be exceptional--in 

>fact it would be (and even was, in the early USSR) encouraged. But they

>made the mistake of using purely economic motivations (pay bonuses) 

>(called the Stakanovite system or something). My point is that there are

>many other reasons to do your best at something, beyond purely 

>personal economic gain. There have been studies by economists (in 

>the US) that confirm this. And,

>as a teacher, I see some teachers who may be considered exceptional, 

>but hey are not motivated by $$ to be so. In fact, all the teachers 

>I know are agaisnt

>Obama & Co's plans to bring "merit pay" to teachers who boost test 

>scores the most  (many think it's a scheme to bust teachers unions 

>too). Many teachers

>don't even think it makes logical sense...

>

>

>----------

>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:40:00 -0800

>From: saulomar1 at yahoo.com

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

> >>> ..were it to succeed and everyone became "exceptional"... how 

> would anyone be exceptional?

> >   ..you're taking the term exceptional is bit too literally!

>

>It seems you took the term "everyone" a bit too literally. (Maybe I 

>should've said instead, "everyone enough'?)

>

>No one's attacking anyone (much less calling them names), just 

>pointing out ironies and

>incosistencies the world would be better off without.

>

> > Back to the Haiti example .... the medical folks, have been 

> completly exceptional.

> > There has been little or no...  Bill Gates/130 year olds, etc.

>

>  That was conflating two seperate points from 2 different people, 

> hence I'm not sure how (or if) that replies to what I wrote.

>Now, if I were the suspicious type i'd say it was a bit of a straw 

>man to shoehorn in that last' sumthin' about the poor suckers 

>jumpin' through hoops - but then again, no one's calling anyone names here...

>

> > There has been little or no completion between them,

>

>    Do you mean competition, instead of 'completion'?

>

>

>

>... ... ... ... ... ...

>[looking at the current state of things..]

>

>'Who has the fun..

>   ..is it always a man with a gun...?

>     Someone must have told him if you work too hard... you can sweat"

>

>

>From: GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com>

>To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>

>Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 2:53:47 PM

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>I think you're taking the term exceptional is bit too literally! 

>Back to the Haiti example--from what I've been hearing, most of the volunteers

>that are down there, esp. the medical folks, have been completly 

>exceptional. There has been little or no completion between them, 

>nor are there any Bill Gates/130 year olds, etc.

>It's amazing the hoops a couple of people will jump thru just to 

>attack communism or anything on the left..poor suckers...

>

>

>----------

>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:21:37 -0800

>From: saulomar1 at yahoo.com

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>    Assuming Ultimate Communism would encourage everyone to be 

> "exceptional," were it to succeed and everyone became 

> "exceptional"... how would anyone be exceptional? Exceptional being 

> a relative term, is there some explanation of "exceptional" (as in, 

> in relation to what?) that would still hold?

>    Because if everyone had Bill Gates' money, a philosopher's 

> depth, and the health of a base-jumping 130-year-old 

> twice-reincarnated Himalay Sherpa, no one could possibly be exceptional.

>

>

>... ... ... ... ... ...

>[looking at the current state of things..]

>

>'Who has the fun..

>   ..is it always a man with a gun...?

>     Someone must have told him if you work too hard... you can sweat"

>

>

>From: GREG SLAWSON <gregslawson at msn.com>

>To: gathering <gathering at misera.net>

>Sent: Mon, February 15, 2010 10:49:12 AM

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>Communism would encourage people to be "exceptional". It says 

>nothing about going over people's needs. And yes, no country has got it

>right yet (it's only been about 100 years--a short time by 

>historical standards).

>And as for your "it will never work b/c all people care about is $" 

>beliefs, why are thousands flooding into Haiti, mostly unpaid, to help?

>

>

>----------

>Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 03:50:01 -0500

>From: killingjoke at theimmortalfool.com

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>Right on!

>If only we all lived in Imaginary Communist Land (because it seems 

>that no one can ever get it right and communism has never

>ever existed) things would be so much better and we'd all be happy, 

>joyful, thoughtless providers to the betterment of man kind.

>Should anyone choose to be exceptional we will just maim them till 

>they are EQUAL with all the others. Should anyone want more than

>what is deemed acceptable to them... Ohhhh boy! I pity the fool!

>Greg, I do hope that your salary does not go one penny over your 

>needs and that if you ever had or will have a pay raise

>you will promptly denounce it and threaten your employer with resignation.

>FIGHT THE POWER MUTHAFUCKAS!

>At 03:03 PM 2/13/2010, GREG SLAWSON wrote:

>Unfortunately the march toward war doen't depend entirely on who's 

>pres or PM. It stems from the competition between nations over markets,

>resources, cheap labor, etc. Obama has already stepped up the Afghan 

>war (where the US wants to build an oil pipeline w/o Taliban 

>interference), and

>has not withdrawn troops from Iraq any faster than Bush would have. 

>As long as capitalism exists, WWIII will be on it's way (w/China?)...

>

>

>----------

>Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:39:38 +0000

>From: adrianwason at btinternet.com

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: [kj] New Topic The war criminal Blair must pay!

>I dont know how many of the gathering outside the UK have heard 

>about the latest bollocks enquiry about tony & george's ego trip but 

>I found it alarming how much blair mentioned Iran.My motto is attack 

>is the best form of defence but it has to be organised.

>

>Can anyone imagine what would have happened if these 2 clowns were 

>left in power. I never ever thought I would say this but thank God 

>america can get rid of it's idiots after their terms.

>

>If George & Tony were still in power WW3 would be just around the 

>corner. In the Uk now we have a one eyed grumpy disorganised 

>threatining(to his staff) totally fiscally incompetent person who 

>inherited a good economic base and has totally fucked it up & the 

>USA-who knows.

>

>But thank God it's not Cuba otherwise we could have those simpletons 

>in for life.

>

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