[kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

[The Exorcist]

Ever wondered about the fact that so many virus 
infected PC's get them from going to rigged/hijacked pornsites?
In this case it seems, not many are preaching 
abstinence, most agree on the using protection theory. :)

(Or use *nix or MacOS, but we don't count those.)

Have a nice weekend.

And it was mighty nice of you to say "bella" as opposed to bell-end! :)

Lately, I'm on a roll!

At 07:07 PM 3/20/2009, Karen Weil wrote:

>Hey -- that's what the Web is for, no? Feel free.  : )

>

>

>Ciao bella,

>

>k.w.

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: <mailto:killingjoke at theimmortalfool.com>The Exorcist

>To: <mailto:gathering at misera.net>A list about 

>all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 3:18 PM

>Subject: Re: [kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

>

>I just want nudi pics. :(

>

>At 03:49 PM 3/20/2009, Karen Weil wrote:

>>Brendan:

>>Most of your argument is spot-on. However, 

>>while not a fan of today's GOP, I'm not sure I 

>>totally buy the argument that Demo-run gov'ts 

>>always equal prosperity. That's just not the 

>>case every time (at least it has not been in my country).

>>The U.S. economy is such a behemoth that it's 

>>really an entity on its own. While a president 

>>can set policies that indirectly can affect an 

>>economy positively or negatively, so many other 

>>factors are involved it's not even funny.

>>The mess of AIG and the mortgage crisis has 

>>been brewing for years now -- and yes, it 

>>involves failures by gov't., the private sector 

>>and lots of irresponsible individuals.

>>Appreciate your links, though -- and in 

>>general, I do strongly believe Clinton did do a 

>>much better job of handling the economy than 

>>Bush II did (even with his constant 9/11 excuses for practically everything).

>>And no, I'm not an economist, so feel free to 

>>challenge me. I enjoy your posts, along with Exo's!

>>

>>Cheers,

>>

>>Karen W.

>>----- Original Message -----

>>From: <mailto:bq at soundgardener.co.nz>Brendan Quinn

>>To: <mailto:gathering at misera.net>'A list about 

>>all things Killing Joke (the band!)'

>>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:52 PM

>>Subject: Re: [kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

>>

>>/rant

>>

>>Kids are doing badly at school because The Man 

>>has their parents working 100-hours a week in 

>>soul destroying jobs in body-destroying 

>>environments, perpetuating the system of 

>>churning out plastic pieces of shit that are 6 

>>months away from landfill when they are 

>>created, so they are being reared watching 

>>television made by and for gargling idiots, 

>>being taught by teachers that the shitstem 

>>can’t see fit to pay or train properly because 

>>there’s no profit to shareholders involved, and 

>>highly educated people are less likely to vote 

>>in such a way as to be economically ass-raped, 

>>and more likely to read such research like 

>>DEMOCRAT GOVERNMENTS ARE CORRELATED WITH 

>>ECONOMIC SUCCESS AND REPUBLICAN GOVERNMENTS ARE 

>>CORRELATED WITH ECONOMIC FAILURE.

>>

>>More jobs:

>>

>><http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/08/08/who-creates-jobs-democratic-presidents-do/>http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/08/08/who-creates-jobs-democratic-presidents-do/ 

>>

>>

>>Income growth / distribution:

>>

>><http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006282.php>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006282.php 

>>

>>

>>Stock market:

>>

>><http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~hal/people/hal/NYTimes/2003-11-20.html>http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~hal/people/hal/NYTimes/2003-11-20.html 

>>

>>

>>A la Clinton / Bush, a striking example.

>>

>>/rant

>>

>>

>>J

>>

>>

>>

>>----------

>>From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [ 

>>mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of The Exorcist

>>Sent: Friday, 20 March 2009 13:43

>>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>>Subject: Re: [kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

>>

>>I did not mean to put words in your mouth if it came across as such.

>>I was questioning your statement as I understood it. I was not comparing

>>the virtue of hippies to a greedy fuckwit. I 

>>have massive issues with one and simply

>>don't care about the others as long as they don't impact me.

>>Before people were "wage" slaves were they not slaves to anything else?

>>Wage is the current way of life for modern society to put food on the table

>>and obtain other amenities.

>>I would not associate all of youth crime/ 

>>falling education standards directly to

>>wage slaves. There are factors such as society, 

>>The dumbing down of tests, Unions

>>trying to destroy private schools that do 

>>better than they do, the victimization mentality

>>that oozes through our subculture and rears its 

>>ugly head everywhere and states "No

>>you can't do any better! We the gov't will take 

>>care of you forever", affirmative action,

>>racial quotas, denying funding for kids in bad 

>>schools who want to go to better schools and

>>study (thank you Obama), the focus on all sorts 

>>of crap other than most basic skills that

>>a kid needs (Reading, Writing, Math.... Now we 

>>have "Reform Math/New-New Math also known as

>>fuzzy math. Please check this link. 

>>http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_3_7_03mc.html), the new

>>progressive schools, the admittance of 

>>uneducated people into college who could never

>>get in and have them graduate with some 

>>claptrap degree, and a hell of lot more.

>>---Snip---

>>"Feb. 1 -- Colorado College, in an effort to 

>>attract minority and disadvantaged students, is 

>>dumping those stodgy old college-admission 

>>exams in favor of a novel Lego-building test 

>>for a handful of applicants. . . .The tests are 

>>seen as a way to help colleges maintain racial 

>>diversity even if racial preferences are eventually banned."

>>---Snip---

>>When kids are not taught to respect anyone, can 

>>get away with everything, it's always someone else's fault,

>>progressive schools with no rules, no curriculum.

>>I assure you this is NOT the fault of 

>>capitalism. Whose is it? Well, let's not get into this right now.

>>You said "Attacking the Republicans...that's 

>>critical thinking / the scientific method. 

>>Constantly re-evaluating values and attacking the status quo"

>>The republicans are anything BUT the status quo 

>>right now. Critical thinking includes

>>all aspects of an issue. When you single out 

>>one group of people that is NOT critical.

>>Yes I did see you ask if there were any lefty loons. This raises 2 points.

>>1- Why is it that it's not common knowledge 

>>(unlike the righties that get attacked everywhere)

>>Not enough airtime? Maybe. (however between, 

>>PBS, CBS,CNN, NBC, BBC, Reuters, AP, Media Matters, print media, TV in general

>>I think they do quite well) Check out this 

>>link. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20086.html

>>Could it be they are not touted as such because 

>>whatever they say is considered

>>acceptable as long as they tow the party line 

>>and go after everyone who disagrees?

>>2. In your post (which cam after the question 

>>of the demmie loons) you specifically pointed out

>>Republicans after listing a slew of things that 

>>irk you. I don't see that as critical thinking.

>>Re: Care less about the republican party history

>>Well that's a shame as we learn a lot from 

>>history and you'd see how the early ideals still stand true despite fuckups.

>>The rampant monetary greed and raping happens from both parties.

>>Look at the campaign coffers.

>>Re: Sneered as an evil doer

>>You mean the way people refer to republicans and conservatives?

>>(Or today, anyone who dares say anything bad about Obama and gets called out

>>and shredded by left wing media?)

>>I don't sneer as them as evil doers. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

>>Unlike Greg Slawson I feel no need to CRUSH THE OPPOSITION.

>>I actually enjoyed some of the works of Trumbo 

>>though I doubt I'd get along with him in person,

>>and till today am amazed about the whole Hollywood blacklist.

>>You say they (communists) want to live in a less "competitive manner."

>>So far, historically speaking it hasn't 

>>happened. Wherever it arose it led to 

>>limitations of individuality, anger and hostility.

>>Communism in its past and current form would 

>>have no competition simply because

>>they would try to get rid of anyone who opposes 

>>them. As our current resident communist

>>has so succinctly stated.

>>Re:Cult of personality? One word. Obama

>>Who was the last Republican "Cult of Personality"?

>>Re:The need to be sexy, popular, cool, trendy? One word. Hollywood

>>If you look at most of the fashionista's out there they tend to lean more

>>left than right. Attributing that to purely to 

>>Republicans is sheer silliness or

>>self delusion.

>>The distaste of the great disparage is understandable. However the notion

>>that everyone deserves everything equally 

>>regardless of what they do does not

>>make sense to me. It would simply lead to 

>>laziness and mediocrity. If you and

>>I, both healthy individuals share a room and I 

>>drag in 10 buckets and you drag in 5

>>are you entitled to my water when you finish yours?

>>The abuse or taking advantage of those working for you should have checks

>>and balances. However that in itself has a 

>>limit. If the figurehead/creator would not

>>have come up with his/her idea none that work 

>>for him/her would ever have a job.

>>They benefit from his/her creativity. Because 

>>they work for him/her does that mean

>>that they are entitled to an equal share? I 

>>don't think so. You might disagree with this

>>and that is your prerogative. This is just my 

>>personal opinion and I speak for no one

>>other than myself.

>>And even in this issues arise. Look at Unions 

>>they were created to protect the worker.

>>Now where is it today? It's a powerful lobby 

>>that looks only after itself and doesn't give a shit

>>about anyone else. They exert political 

>>pressure, they are corrupt, they intimidate and now they

>>want to enforce "Card Check". Let's not forget 

>>the Mafia influence in unions.

>>Matters are not simple cut and dry.

>>If you look at the products created in 

>>communist societies, they are rarely long lasting

>>works of marvels.

>>You have every right to disassociate/opt out 

>>from anything you choose. However if you

>>go along singularly, well that ain't communism. 

>>If you have a communist country you

>>wouldn't have ads for material objects, it'd 

>>just be replaced with propaganda for something

>>else.

>>I'm done now. If you choose to continue this 

>>thread let's combine the 2 emails into a singular thread

>>if possible. I apologize to any gatherers that 

>>might be annoyed/mad/angry with the long posts.

>>

>>At 03:47 AM 3/19/2009, Brendan wrote:

>>Firstly, it's not fair to put words into someone's mouth. I never said

>>work was bad (?!), I do my fair share and always have. I'm not a hippie

>>sitting around a camp site singing songs...but so what if I was? Who is

>>better, who does more good / less harm...Bernie Madoff or Cheech n Chong,

>>or your average street bum? Your average hippie doesn't rip people off to

>>the tune of $50billion. I contend the average jobless hippie pot-head does

>>less harm than your average corporate lawyer.

>>My point is that most ppl are essentially wage slaves, because of

>>statistics like the following - the top 20% of the population owns 74% of

>>the wealth and the bottom 20% of the population controls 2%. It's

>>exploitation. I think that both parents being forced to work by such low

>>wages (often more than 40 hrs each) is excessive and damaging to families

>>and society (youth crime / falling education standards anyone?)

>>The topic of increasing automation is one that I won't get too heavily

>>into but bear in mind that more and more jobs are being automated, if it

>>wasn't for the service sector there would be huge unemployment, and it

>>won't be long before the service sector gets more automated, as machines

>>become exponentially more capable. I work in IT support - nothing a

>>machine won't be able to do in x years. That's great from my point of

>>view...progress.

>>Attacking the Republicans...that's critical thinking / the scientific

>>method. Constantlly re-evaluating values and attacking the status quo. And

>>Republicans could do a lot in the eyes of people like me if they got rid

>>of the Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs. You'll recall I specifically

>>asked if there were any Dems as annoying as that lot, which I bet there

>>are (I just don't think they get the same airtime). Also that I said I

>>disagree with the system itself...I don't believe there's a huge amount of

>>difference between the two parties at the end of the day. They both stand

>>for corporations over people in my mind...only because of the few who

>>cream the profits from the corporations.

>>I could care less about the history of the Republican party, I'm talking now.

>>I wouldn't want to live under a communist regime, I watched a doco about

>>it the other day, and, at least in the form I've seen it, it doesn't

>>appeal. What gets on my goat however is how you're sneered at as some kind

>>of evil-doer for merely mentioning the word, even though most people who

>>espouse such ideas simply want to live in a more co-operative and less

>>competitive manner.

>>Also, there's no way it's as simple as opting out of buying products,

>>sending a message to the producers that way. They target kids, they use

>>extremely well crafted advertising whose influence is hard to resist (I

>>specifically mentioned in my other email how they use psychologists in a

>>cynical way to craft their adverts), the cult of personality is used to

>>associate famous ppl with products, they use sex, guilt, nationalism,

>>propaganda, elitism, everything they can to get you to buy. It's hard not

>>to buy into it, they do their job very well. Everyone wants to be popular,

>>sexy, entertained, cool, dynamic, healthy, responsible etc etc. But you're

>>not gonna get it by buying over-priced jeans or cigarettes, whatever they

>>want you to think.

>> >From a big picture perspective, it's obscene that some people have 20 cars

>>and mansions etc, on the backs of the people who work in the companies

>>they head, when other people can't afford the basics like healthcare. They

>>are the ones who perpetuate the myth that the system has to work that way,

>>that no one will be motivated to work in a system without money and

>>profit. What a load of crap.

>>I don't begrudge anyone the right to live like that, by all means, however

>>I'd like to have the opportunity to opt out, to live in a society with a

>>fraction of the advertising, where goods were produced with quality and

>>longevity in mind (ALL goods), there wasn't the huge wastage involved in

>>producing inferior goods that were specifically planned to fail well

>>before they need to to keep the consumer consuming, where new products are

>>constantly being churned out and people are made to feel inferior for not

>>having them, where individuals are allowed to amass fleets of cars and

>>houses while others are left without the basics...that's just foul to me.

>>Justifying it by saying that creating jobs and a wealthy country helps

>>everyone...I don't buy that at all.

>> > Altruism is as much a personal ideology (if not

>> > more) than a political ideology.

>> > As a personal ideal I can see the merits. As a

>> > political, it becomes an entirely different creature.

>> >

>> > You attack republicans yet it was the Republican

>> > party that fought to get rid of slavery.

>> > They were the first to ban slavery despite the Democrats opposition.

>> > The republicans passed the First Civil Rights act in 1875.

>> >

>> > Here is some info for you to chew on.

>> > ----------------------------------------------

>> > "The Civil Rights Act (1875) was introduced to

>> > Congress by Charles Sumner and Benjamin Butler in

>> > 1870 but did not become law until 1st March,

>> > 1875. It promised that all persons, regardless of

>> > race, color, or previous condition, was entitled

>> > to full and equal employment of accommodation in

>> > "inns, public conveyances on land or water,

>> > theaters, and other places of public amusement."

>> >

>> > In 1883 the Supreme Court declared the act as

>> > unconstitutional and asserted that Congress did

>> > not have the power to regulate the conduct and transactions of

>> > individuals."

>> >

>> > Many of the provisions that were later passed in

>> > the 1960's were taken from the original act.

>> > And this was only accomplished after overcoming a Democrat filibuster.

>> > Here are the yea-nea

>> > Democratic Party: 152-96   (61%-39%)

>> > Republican Party: 138-34   (80%-20%)

>> >

>> > The Senate version:

>> > Democratic Party: 46-21   (69%-31%)

>> > Republican Party: 27-6   (82%-18%)

>> >

>> > The Senate version, voted on by the House:

>> > Democratic Party: 153-91   (63%-37%)

>> > Republican Party: 136-35   (80%-20%)

>> >

>> > Republicans led the fight for women’s rights, and

>> > most suffragists were Republicans. In fact, Susan

>> > B. Anthony bragged about how, after voting

>> > (illegally) in 1872, she had voted a straight

>> > Republican ticket. The suffragists included two

>> > African-American women who were also co-founders

>> > of the NAACP: Ida Wells and Mary Terrell, Republicans, both of them.

>> >

>> > Republican Senator Aaron Sargent wrote the

>> > women’s suffrage amendment in 1878,though it

>> > would not be passed by Congress until Republicans

>> > again won control of both houses 40 years later.

>> > It was in 1916 that the first woman was elected

>> > to the U.S. House of Representatives, Republican

>> > Jeannette Rankin. The first woman mayor was

>> > elected in 1926, the Honorable Bertha Landes of

>> > Seattle, another Republican.

>> >

>> > The KKK was from the Democrat wing and attacked

>> > many republicans (not to mention all the others they bore hatred for).

>> >

>> > It was the party that made it possible for Obama to be where he is today.

>> > ----------------------------------------------

>> >

>> > I hate gaudy shopping malls, I hate annoying ads

>> > and I hate lots of shit out there. I can't stand

>> > the radio for the most part either.

>> > I lament everyday the loss of the vibe that NYC

>> > once had and is now a yuppified condo filled blob

>> > of land. I don't own ANY designer

>> > brand name shirts, pants, socks, belts etc...

>> >

>> > "All the millions of ppl. trudging to work everyday to a job they hate."

>> > Ahhhhh, so there should be no work? Would it be

>> > ok to say at least they HAVE jobs and some sort of income?

>> > Do we have to enjoy everything in life? Are we

>> > all just gonna sit around in dance and song and advance, grow healthier,

>> > more educated, watch as food miraculously pops

>> > into our mouths while we lose the need for malaria shots?

>> > In the US one of the biggest issues of the poor

>> > and under privileged is OBESITY. Imagine that!

>> >

>> > Is that cloud of doom you see because of shitty

>> > jobs or is it becomes lives today have nothing to strive for and are

>> > empty and meaningless. Are all these faces 

>> only in "Capitalist countries"?

>> >

>> > I think my mother who came from Russia would have

>> > quite a different opinion than you and would probably be able to give

>> > you some insight how it was to live as a Jew

>> > under the Russian communist rule. (in whatever form you care to call it)

>> >

>> > "Political lobbying by vested interests": That

>> > applies to all parties throughout time. If you think this is a trade

>> > unique to

>> > Capitalism, you are sadly very mistaken.

>> >

>> > "People think they are better than other ppl.

>> > based on income bracket": Once again, that is not

>> > a Capitalist creation, nor a Republican

>> > nor a Democrat, nor Communist, nor Marxist, nor

>> > Trostskyite, nor Bolshevik.... I hope you get the point by now.

>> >

>> > "Plastic pieces of shit": I hate that as well and

>> > I am quite picky with what I purchase. You get

>> > what you pay for. If you don't like it

>> > don't buy it. If you don't buy it they won't make

>> > it (unless the Gov't/Nancy Pelosi/Obama forces

>> > the car manufacturers to make more green

>> > cars that no one seems to be buying). Did you

>> > ever think that the little plastic piece of shit

>> > can actually bring joy to a poor family who can't

>> > afford anything quite grandiose?

>> >

>> > You might say "ahhh those filthy Capitalist pigs,

>> > they're just brainwashing the kids with all those

>> > toys and garbage." the poor parent might

>> > see it as "geee, my kids friend has an Ipod and

>> > can listen to music all the time but I can't

>> > afford to get one for my kid, well at least I can get

>> > my child some other sort of player."

>> >

>> > Excused me, no one is being forced to do

>> > anything. At least not in the US. What exactly IS

>> > a soulful job? What exactly are we

>> > supposed to be seeing/doing? You've yet to describe that.

>> >

>> > Capitalism took a small country and turned it

>> > into a megapower faster than any other nation.

>> > Everything has it's faults and everything

>> > can be exploited. You seem to not grasp this idea

>> > and just focus on your bloodlust for "Capitalism". There ought to be

>> > checks and

>> > balances with proper implementation, when it's

>> > not there... People get corrupt. It's everywhere buddy.

>> >

>> > Another little heads up, Most conservative

>> > republicans (and Democrats) were against the bail

>> > out, still are against the bailout.

>> > All the masses of cash flowing is coming from

>> > Senior Obama. I love it how people are all

>> > shouting bloody murder about the 165 Million "Bonus"

>> > that AIG is giving out while that is a SPIT in

>> > the bucket compared to how our Gov't just totally ass raped us!

>> >

>> > Other than trying to catch up with religion in

>> > the amount of people killed and tortured in the

>> > name of "ideals" and having books banned,

>> > censored, and people exiled. I can't quite bring

>> > to mind any great additions to society that 

>> have come from Marxist ideals.

>> >

>> > Next time you feel like saying the word

>> > "Republican" with venom I hope the short (but

>> > lengthy for an Email) quick recap of the

>> > "Republicans" comes to mind.

>> >

>> >

>> > At 11:44 PM 3/18/2009, Brendan Quinn wrote:

>> >>Most sane people wouldn’t claim that altruism is

>> >>a trait exclusive to one political ideology, I

>> >>wouldn’t bother continuing a conversation with

>> >>anyone that did ­ what’s the point?

>> >>

>> >>I just dunno how anyone could defend modern

>> >>capitalism ­ gaudy shopping malls, whole

>> >>neighbourhoods full of soulless advertising

>> >>that’s impossible to avoid (yes, I’ve been to

>> >>LA

some parts of it gave me the total shits),

>> >>cynical advertising steered by psychologists,

>> >>aimed at kids, selling unnatural chemical

>> >>concoctions as ‘food’, all the millions of

>> >>people trudging to work every day at a job they

>> >>hate (I’m so glad I don’t have to take the bus

>> >>in to work in the mornings anymore because the

>> >>cloud of doom amongst the condemned is

>> >>depressing

), political (monetary) lobbying by

>> >>powerful vested interests, people thinking they

>> >>are better than other people because of their

>> >>income bracket, planned obsolescence, plastic

>> >>pieces of shit that don’t last 3 months,

>> >>landfill full of heavy metals

Republicans


>> >>

>> >>People being FORCED to help out is NOT acceptable.

>> >>

>> >>People being forced to work 40 hours a week at

>> >>soulless jobs isn’t a great state of affairs

>> >>either, being forced to put up with pollution,

>> >>rampant destruction of natural resources,

>> >>getting one vote every 4 years that means

>> >>practically nothing in the scheme of things,

>> >>getting ripped off by corporations and then

>> >>expected to pay to bail them out

etc etc.

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>----------

>> > _______________________________________________

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>> >

>>

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