[kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

[The Exorcist]

I just want nudi pics. :(

At 03:49 PM 3/20/2009, Karen Weil wrote:

>Brendan:

>Most of your argument is spot-on. However, while 

>not a fan of today's GOP, I'm not sure I totally 

>buy the argument that Demo-run gov'ts always 

>equal prosperity. That's just not the case every 

>time (at least it has not been in my country).

>The U.S. economy is such a behemoth that it's 

>really an entity on its own. While a president 

>can set policies that indirectly can affect an 

>economy positively or negatively, so many other 

>factors are involved it's not even funny.

>The mess of AIG and the mortgage crisis has been 

>brewing for years now -- and yes, it involves 

>failures by gov't., the private sector and lots of irresponsible individuals.

>Appreciate your links, though -- and in general, 

>I do strongly believe Clinton did do a much 

>better job of handling the economy than Bush II 

>did (even with his constant 9/11 excuses for practically everything).

>And no, I'm not an economist, so feel free to 

>challenge me. I enjoy your posts, along with Exo's!

>

>Cheers,

>

>Karen W.

>----- Original Message -----

>From: <mailto:bq at soundgardener.co.nz>Brendan Quinn

>To: <mailto:gathering at misera.net>'A list about 

>all things Killing Joke (the band!)'

>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:52 PM

>Subject: Re: [kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

>

>/rant

>

>Kids are doing badly at school because The Man 

>has their parents working 100-hours a week in 

>soul destroying jobs in body-destroying 

>environments, perpetuating the system of 

>churning out plastic pieces of shit that are 6 

>months away from landfill when they are created, 

>so they are being reared watching television 

>made by and for gargling idiots, being taught by 

>teachers that the shitstem can’t see fit to pay 

>or train properly because there’s no profit to 

>shareholders involved, and highly educated 

>people are less likely to vote in such a way as 

>to be economically ass-raped, and more likely to 

>read such research like DEMOCRAT GOVERNMENTS ARE 

>CORRELATED WITH ECONOMIC SUCCESS AND REPUBLICAN 

>GOVERNMENTS ARE CORRELATED WITH ECONOMIC FAILURE.

>

>More jobs:

>

><http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/08/08/who-creates-jobs-democratic-presidents-do/>http://www.laprogressive.com/2008/08/08/who-creates-jobs-democratic-presidents-do/

>

>Income growth / distribution:

>

><http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006282.php>http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_05/006282.php

>

>Stock market:

>

><http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~hal/people/hal/NYTimes/2003-11-20.html>http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~hal/people/hal/NYTimes/2003-11-20.html

>

>A la Clinton / Bush, a striking example.

>

>/rant

>

>J

>

>

>

>----------

>From: gathering-bounces at misera.net 

>[mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of The Exorcist

>Sent: Friday, 20 March 2009 13:43

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>Subject: Re: [kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

>

>I did not mean to put words in your mouth if it came across as such.

>I was questioning your statement as I understood it. I was not comparing

>the virtue of hippies to a greedy fuckwit. I 

>have massive issues with one and simply

>don't care about the others as long as they don't impact me.

>

>Before people were "wage" slaves were they not slaves to anything else?

>Wage is the current way of life for modern society to put food on the table

>and obtain other amenities.

>

>I would not associate all of youth crime/ 

>falling education standards directly to

>wage slaves. There are factors such as society, 

>The dumbing down of tests, Unions

>trying to destroy private schools that do better 

>than they do, the victimization mentality

>that oozes through our subculture and rears its 

>ugly head everywhere and states "No

>you can't do any better! We the gov't will take 

>care of you forever", affirmative action,

>racial quotas, denying funding for kids in bad 

>schools who want to go to better schools and

>study (thank you Obama), the focus on all sorts 

>of crap other than most basic skills that

>a kid needs (Reading, Writing, Math.... Now we 

>have "Reform Math/New-New Math also known as

>fuzzy math. Please check this link. 

>http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_3_7_03mc.html), the new

>progressive schools, the admittance of 

>uneducated people into college who could never

>get in and have them graduate with some claptrap 

>degree, and a hell of lot more.

>

>---Snip---

>"Feb. 1 -- Colorado College, in an effort to 

>attract minority and disadvantaged students, is 

>dumping those stodgy old college-admission exams 

>in favor of a novel Lego-building test for a 

>handful of applicants. . . .The tests are seen 

>as a way to help colleges maintain racial 

>diversity even if racial preferences are eventually banned."

>---Snip---

>

>When kids are not taught to respect anyone, can 

>get away with everything, it's always someone else's fault,

>progressive schools with no rules, no curriculum.

>

>I assure you this is NOT the fault of 

>capitalism. Whose is it? Well, let's not get into this right now.

>

>You said "Attacking the Republicans...that's 

>critical thinking / the scientific method. 

>Constantly re-evaluating values and attacking the status quo"

>

>The republicans are anything BUT the status quo 

>right now. Critical thinking includes

>all aspects of an issue. When you single out one 

>group of people that is NOT critical.

>

>Yes I did see you ask if there were any lefty loons. This raises 2 points.

>

>1- Why is it that it's not common knowledge 

>(unlike the righties that get attacked everywhere)

>Not enough airtime? Maybe. (however between, 

>PBS, CBS,CNN, NBC, BBC, Reuters, AP, Media Matters, print media, TV in general

>I think they do quite well) Check out this link. 

>http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20086.html

>

>Could it be they are not touted as such because 

>whatever they say is considered

>acceptable as long as they tow the party line 

>and go after everyone who disagrees?

>

>2. In your post (which cam after the question of 

>the demmie loons) you specifically pointed out

>Republicans after listing a slew of things that 

>irk you. I don't see that as critical thinking.

>

>Re: Care less about the republican party history

>Well that's a shame as we learn a lot from 

>history and you'd see how the early ideals still stand true despite fuckups.

>The rampant monetary greed and raping happens from both parties.

>Look at the campaign coffers.

>

>Re: Sneered as an evil doer

>You mean the way people refer to republicans and conservatives?

>(Or today, anyone who dares say anything bad about Obama and gets called out

>and shredded by left wing media?)

>

>I don't sneer as them as evil doers. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

>Unlike Greg Slawson I feel no need to CRUSH THE OPPOSITION.

>I actually enjoyed some of the works of Trumbo 

>though I doubt I'd get along with him in person,

>and till today am amazed about the whole Hollywood blacklist.

>

>You say they (communists) want to live in a less "competitive manner."

>So far, historically speaking it hasn't 

>happened. Wherever it arose it led to 

>limitations of individuality, anger and hostility.

>

>Communism in its past and current form would 

>have no competition simply because

>they would try to get rid of anyone who opposes 

>them. As our current resident communist

>has so succinctly stated.

>

>Re:Cult of personality? One word. Obama

>Who was the last Republican "Cult of Personality"?

>

>Re:The need to be sexy, popular, cool, trendy? One word. Hollywood

>

>If you look at most of the fashionista's out there they tend to lean more

>left than right. Attributing that to purely to 

>Republicans is sheer silliness or

>self delusion.

>

>The distaste of the great disparage is understandable. However the notion

>that everyone deserves everything equally regardless of what they do does not

>make sense to me. It would simply lead to laziness and mediocrity. If you and

>I, both healthy individuals share a room and I 

>drag in 10 buckets and you drag in 5

>are you entitled to my water when you finish yours?

>

>The abuse or taking advantage of those working for you should have checks

>and balances. However that in itself has a 

>limit. If the figurehead/creator would not

>have come up with his/her idea none that work 

>for him/her would ever have a job.

>They benefit from his/her creativity. Because 

>they work for him/her does that mean

>that they are entitled to an equal share? I 

>don't think so. You might disagree with this

>and that is your prerogative. This is just my 

>personal opinion and I speak for no one

>other than myself.

>

>And even in this issues arise. Look at Unions 

>they were created to protect the worker.

>Now where is it today? It's a powerful lobby 

>that looks only after itself and doesn't give a shit

>about anyone else. They exert political 

>pressure, they are corrupt, they intimidate and now they

>want to enforce "Card Check". Let's not forget the Mafia influence in unions.

>

>Matters are not simple cut and dry.

>

>If you look at the products created in communist 

>societies, they are rarely long lasting

>works of marvels.

>

>You have every right to disassociate/opt out 

>from anything you choose. However if you

>go along singularly, well that ain't communism. 

>If you have a communist country you

>wouldn't have ads for material objects, it'd 

>just be replaced with propaganda for something

>else.

>

>I'm done now. If you choose to continue this 

>thread let's combine the 2 emails into a singular thread

>if possible. I apologize to any gatherers that 

>might be annoyed/mad/angry with the long posts.

>

>At 03:47 AM 3/19/2009, Brendan wrote:

>

>Firstly, it's not fair to put words into someone's mouth. I never said

>work was bad (?!), I do my fair share and always have. I'm not a hippie

>sitting around a camp site singing songs...but so what if I was? Who is

>better, who does more good / less harm...Bernie Madoff or Cheech n Chong,

>or your average street bum? Your average hippie doesn't rip people off to

>the tune of $50billion. I contend the average jobless hippie pot-head does

>less harm than your average corporate lawyer.

>

>My point is that most ppl are essentially wage slaves, because of

>statistics like the following - the top 20% of the population owns 74% of

>the wealth and the bottom 20% of the population controls 2%. It's

>exploitation. I think that both parents being forced to work by such low

>wages (often more than 40 hrs each) is excessive and damaging to families

>and society (youth crime / falling education standards anyone?)

>

>The topic of increasing automation is one that I won't get too heavily

>into but bear in mind that more and more jobs are being automated, if it

>wasn't for the service sector there would be huge unemployment, and it

>won't be long before the service sector gets more automated, as machines

>become exponentially more capable. I work in IT support - nothing a

>machine won't be able to do in x years. That's great from my point of

>view...progress.

>

>Attacking the Republicans...that's critical thinking / the scientific

>method. Constantlly re-evaluating values and attacking the status quo. And

>Republicans could do a lot in the eyes of people like me if they got rid

>of the Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs. You'll recall I specifically

>asked if there were any Dems as annoying as that lot, which I bet there

>are (I just don't think they get the same airtime). Also that I said I

>disagree with the system itself...I don't believe there's a huge amount of

>difference between the two parties at the end of the day. They both stand

>for corporations over people in my mind...only because of the few who

>cream the profits from the corporations.

>

>I could care less about the history of the Republican party, I'm talking now.

>

>I wouldn't want to live under a communist regime, I watched a doco about

>it the other day, and, at least in the form I've seen it, it doesn't

>appeal. What gets on my goat however is how you're sneered at as some kind

>of evil-doer for merely mentioning the word, even though most people who

>espouse such ideas simply want to live in a more co-operative and less

>competitive manner.

>

>Also, there's no way it's as simple as opting out of buying products,

>sending a message to the producers that way. They target kids, they use

>extremely well crafted advertising whose influence is hard to resist (I

>specifically mentioned in my other email how they use psychologists in a

>cynical way to craft their adverts), the cult of personality is used to

>associate famous ppl with products, they use sex, guilt, nationalism,

>propaganda, elitism, everything they can to get you to buy. It's hard not

>to buy into it, they do their job very well. Everyone wants to be popular,

>sexy, entertained, cool, dynamic, healthy, responsible etc etc. But you're

>not gonna get it by buying over-priced jeans or cigarettes, whatever they

>want you to think.

>

> >From a big picture perspective, it's obscene that some people have 20 cars

>and mansions etc, on the backs of the people who work in the companies

>they head, when other people can't afford the basics like healthcare. They

>are the ones who perpetuate the myth that the system has to work that way,

>that no one will be motivated to work in a system without money and

>profit. What a load of crap.

>

>I don't begrudge anyone the right to live like that, by all means, however

>I'd like to have the opportunity to opt out, to live in a society with a

>fraction of the advertising, where goods were produced with quality and

>longevity in mind (ALL goods), there wasn't the huge wastage involved in

>producing inferior goods that were specifically planned to fail well

>before they need to to keep the consumer consuming, where new products are

>constantly being churned out and people are made to feel inferior for not

>having them, where individuals are allowed to amass fleets of cars and

>houses while others are left without the basics...that's just foul to me.

>Justifying it by saying that creating jobs and a wealthy country helps

>everyone...I don't buy that at all.

>

> > Altruism is as much a personal ideology (if not

> > more) than a political ideology.

> > As a personal ideal I can see the merits. As a

> > political, it becomes an entirely different creature.

> >

> > You attack republicans yet it was the Republican

> > party that fought to get rid of slavery.

> > They were the first to ban slavery despite the Democrats opposition.

> > The republicans passed the First Civil Rights act in 1875.

> >

> > Here is some info for you to chew on.

> > ----------------------------------------------

> > "The Civil Rights Act (1875) was introduced to

> > Congress by Charles Sumner and Benjamin Butler in

> > 1870 but did not become law until 1st March,

> > 1875. It promised that all persons, regardless of

> > race, color, or previous condition, was entitled

> > to full and equal employment of accommodation in

> > "inns, public conveyances on land or water,

> > theaters, and other places of public amusement."

> >

> > In 1883 the Supreme Court declared the act as

> > unconstitutional and asserted that Congress did

> > not have the power to regulate the conduct and transactions of

> > individuals."

> >

> > Many of the provisions that were later passed in

> > the 1960's were taken from the original act.

> > And this was only accomplished after overcoming a Democrat filibuster.

> > Here are the yea-nea

> > Democratic Party: 152-96   (61%-39%)

> > Republican Party: 138-34   (80%-20%)

> >

> > The Senate version:

> > Democratic Party: 46-21   (69%-31%)

> > Republican Party: 27-6   (82%-18%)

> >

> > The Senate version, voted on by the House:

> > Democratic Party: 153-91   (63%-37%)

> > Republican Party: 136-35   (80%-20%)

> >

> > Republicans led the fight for women’s rights, and

> > most suffragists were Republicans. In fact, Susan

> > B. Anthony bragged about how, after voting

> > (illegally) in 1872, she had voted a straight

> > Republican ticket. The suffragists included two

> > African-American women who were also co-founders

> > of the NAACP: Ida Wells and Mary Terrell, Republicans, both of them.

> >

> > Republican Senator Aaron Sargent wrote the

> > women’s suffrage amendment in 1878,though it

> > would not be passed by Congress until Republicans

> > again won control of both houses 40 years later.

> > It was in 1916 that the first woman was elected

> > to the U.S. House of Representatives, Republican

> > Jeannette Rankin. The first woman mayor was

> > elected in 1926, the Honorable Bertha Landes of

> > Seattle, another Republican.

> >

> > The KKK was from the Democrat wing and attacked

> > many republicans (not to mention all the others they bore hatred for).

> >

> > It was the party that made it possible for Obama to be where he is today.

> > ----------------------------------------------

> >

> > I hate gaudy shopping malls, I hate annoying ads

> > and I hate lots of shit out there. I can't stand

> > the radio for the most part either.

> > I lament everyday the loss of the vibe that NYC

> > once had and is now a yuppified condo filled blob

> > of land. I don't own ANY designer

> > brand name shirts, pants, socks, belts etc...

> >

> > "All the millions of ppl. trudging to work everyday to a job they hate."

> > Ahhhhh, so there should be no work? Would it be

> > ok to say at least they HAVE jobs and some sort of income?

> > Do we have to enjoy everything in life? Are we

> > all just gonna sit around in dance and song and advance, grow healthier,

> > more educated, watch as food miraculously pops

> > into our mouths while we lose the need for malaria shots?

> > In the US one of the biggest issues of the poor

> > and under privileged is OBESITY. Imagine that!

> >

> > Is that cloud of doom you see because of shitty

> > jobs or is it becomes lives today have nothing to strive for and are

> > empty and meaningless. Are all these faces only in "Capitalist countries"?

> >

> > I think my mother who came from Russia would have

> > quite a different opinion than you and would probably be able to give

> > you some insight how it was to live as a Jew

> > under the Russian communist rule. (in whatever form you care to call it)

> >

> > "Political lobbying by vested interests": That

> > applies to all parties throughout time. If you think this is a trade

> > unique to

> > Capitalism, you are sadly very mistaken.

> >

> > "People think they are better than other ppl.

> > based on income bracket": Once again, that is not

> > a Capitalist creation, nor a Republican

> > nor a Democrat, nor Communist, nor Marxist, nor

> > Trostskyite, nor Bolshevik.... I hope you get the point by now.

> >

> > "Plastic pieces of shit": I hate that as well and

> > I am quite picky with what I purchase. You get

> > what you pay for. If you don't like it

> > don't buy it. If you don't buy it they won't make

> > it (unless the Gov't/Nancy Pelosi/Obama forces

> > the car manufacturers to make more green

> > cars that no one seems to be buying). Did you

> > ever think that the little plastic piece of shit

> > can actually bring joy to a poor family who can't

> > afford anything quite grandiose?

> >

> > You might say "ahhh those filthy Capitalist pigs,

> > they're just brainwashing the kids with all those

> > toys and garbage." the poor parent might

> > see it as "geee, my kids friend has an Ipod and

> > can listen to music all the time but I can't

> > afford to get one for my kid, well at least I can get

> > my child some other sort of player."

> >

> > Excused me, no one is being forced to do

> > anything. At least not in the US. What exactly IS

> > a soulful job? What exactly are we

> > supposed to be seeing/doing? You've yet to describe that.

> >

> > Capitalism took a small country and turned it

> > into a megapower faster than any other nation.

> > Everything has it's faults and everything

> > can be exploited. You seem to not grasp this idea

> > and just focus on your bloodlust for "Capitalism". There ought to be

> > checks and

> > balances with proper implementation, when it's

> > not there... People get corrupt. It's everywhere buddy.

> >

> > Another little heads up, Most conservative

> > republicans (and Democrats) were against the bail

> > out, still are against the bailout.

> > All the masses of cash flowing is coming from

> > Senior Obama. I love it how people are all

> > shouting bloody murder about the 165 Million "Bonus"

> > that AIG is giving out while that is a SPIT in

> > the bucket compared to how our Gov't just totally ass raped us!

> >

> > Other than trying to catch up with religion in

> > the amount of people killed and tortured in the

> > name of "ideals" and having books banned,

> > censored, and people exiled. I can't quite bring

> > to mind any great additions to society that have come from Marxist ideals.

> >

> > Next time you feel like saying the word

> > "Republican" with venom I hope the short (but

> > lengthy for an Email) quick recap of the

> > "Republicans" comes to mind.

> >

> >

> > At 11:44 PM 3/18/2009, Brendan Quinn wrote:

> >>Most sane people wouldn’t claim that altruism is

> >>a trait exclusive to one political ideology, I

> >>wouldn’t bother continuing a conversation with

> >>anyone that did ­ what’s the point?

> >>

> >>I just dunno how anyone could defend modern

> >>capitalism ­ gaudy shopping malls, whole

> >>neighbourhoods full of soulless advertising

> >>that’s impossible to avoid (yes, I’ve been to

> >>LA

some parts of it gave me the total shits),

> >>cynical advertising steered by psychologists,

> >>aimed at kids, selling unnatural chemical

> >>concoctions as ‘food’, all the millions of

> >>people trudging to work every day at a job they

> >>hate (I’m so glad I don’t have to take the bus

> >>in to work in the mornings anymore because the

> >>cloud of doom amongst the condemned is

> >>depressing

), political (monetary) lobbying by

> >>powerful vested interests, people thinking they

> >>are better than other people because of their

> >>income bracket, planned obsolescence, plastic

> >>pieces of shit that don’t last 3 months,

> >>landfill full of heavy metals

Republicans


> >>

> >>People being FORCED to help out is NOT acceptable.

> >>

> >>People being forced to work 40 hours a week at

> >>soulless jobs isn’t a great state of affairs

> >>either, being forced to put up with pollution,

> >>rampant destruction of natural resources,

> >>getting one vote every 4 years that means

> >>practically nothing in the scheme of things,

> >>getting ripped off by corporations and then

> >>expected to pay to bail them out

etc etc.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>----------

> > _______________________________________________

> > Gathering mailing list

> > Gathering at misera.net

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

>

>

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