[kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

[GREG SLAWSON]

Good post--Just to add, Marx talked about the role of technology--it's pretty hard to understand, but he said that over the long run, increasing automation leads to falling "rate" of profit for capitalists (b/c they don't profit directly off of labor, and as a result their costs go down, but they have to lower the price to stay competitive, etc). This seems counter-intuitive, but helps explain some of the current economic crisis. BTW the last paragaph sound like communism to me!
 

> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:47:58 +1300

> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: jaz date change 4 spoken word

> 

> Firstly, it's not fair to put words into someone's mouth. I never said

> work was bad (?!), I do my fair share and always have. I'm not a hippie

> sitting around a camp site singing songs...but so what if I was? Who is

> better, who does more good / less harm...Bernie Madoff or Cheech n Chong,

> or your average street bum? Your average hippie doesn't rip people off to

> the tune of $50billion. I contend the average jobless hippie pot-head does

> less harm than your average corporate lawyer.

> 

> My point is that most ppl are essentially wage slaves, because of

> statistics like the following - the top 20% of the population owns 74% of

> the wealth and the bottom 20% of the population controls 2%. It's

> exploitation. I think that both parents being forced to work by such low

> wages (often more than 40 hrs each) is excessive and damaging to families

> and society (youth crime / falling education standards anyone?)

> 

> The topic of increasing automation is one that I won't get too heavily

> into but bear in mind that more and more jobs are being automated, if it

> wasn't for the service sector there would be huge unemployment, and it

> won't be long before the service sector gets more automated, as machines

> become exponentially more capable. I work in IT support - nothing a

> machine won't be able to do in x years. That's great from my point of

> view...progress.

> 

> Attacking the Republicans...that's critical thinking / the scientific

> method. Constantlly re-evaluating values and attacking the status quo. And

> Republicans could do a lot in the eyes of people like me if they got rid

> of the Bill O'Reillys and Rush Limbaughs. You'll recall I specifically

> asked if there were any Dems as annoying as that lot, which I bet there

> are (I just don't think they get the same airtime). Also that I said I

> disagree with the system itself...I don't believe there's a huge amount of

> difference between the two parties at the end of the day. They both stand

> for corporations over people in my mind...only because of the few who

> cream the profits from the corporations.

> 

> I could care less about the history of the Republican party, I'm talking now.

> 

> I wouldn't want to live under a communist regime, I watched a doco about

> it the other day, and, at least in the form I've seen it, it doesn't

> appeal. What gets on my goat however is how you're sneered at as some kind

> of evil-doer for merely mentioning the word, even though most people who

> espouse such ideas simply want to live in a more co-operative and less

> competitive manner.

> 

> Also, there's no way it's as simple as opting out of buying products,

> sending a message to the producers that way. They target kids, they use

> extremely well crafted advertising whose influence is hard to resist (I

> specifically mentioned in my other email how they use psychologists in a

> cynical way to craft their adverts), the cult of personality is used to

> associate famous ppl with products, they use sex, guilt, nationalism,

> propaganda, elitism, everything they can to get you to buy. It's hard not

> to buy into it, they do their job very well. Everyone wants to be popular,

> sexy, entertained, cool, dynamic, healthy, responsible etc etc. But you're

> not gonna get it by buying over-priced jeans or cigarettes, whatever they

> want you to think.

> 

> >From a big picture perspective, it's obscene that some people have 20 cars

> and mansions etc, on the backs of the people who work in the companies

> they head, when other people can't afford the basics like healthcare. They

> are the ones who perpetuate the myth that the system has to work that way,

> that no one will be motivated to work in a system without money and

> profit. What a load of crap.

> 

> I don't begrudge anyone the right to live like that, by all means, however

> I'd like to have the opportunity to opt out, to live in a society with a

> fraction of the advertising, where goods were produced with quality and

> longevity in mind (ALL goods), there wasn't the huge wastage involved in

> producing inferior goods that were specifically planned to fail well

> before they need to to keep the consumer consuming, where new products are

> constantly being churned out and people are made to feel inferior for not

> having them, where individuals are allowed to amass fleets of cars and

> houses while others are left without the basics...that's just foul to me.

> Justifying it by saying that creating jobs and a wealthy country helps

> everyone...I don't buy that at all.

> 

> > Altruism is as much a personal ideology (if not

> > more) than a political ideology.

> > As a personal ideal I can see the merits. As a

> > political, it becomes an entirely different creature.

> >

> > You attack republicans yet it was the Republican

> > party that fought to get rid of slavery.

> > They were the first to ban slavery despite the Democrats opposition.

> > The republicans passed the First Civil Rights act in 1875.

> >

> > Here is some info for you to chew on.

> > ----------------------------------------------

> > "The Civil Rights Act (1875) was introduced to

> > Congress by Charles Sumner and Benjamin Butler in

> > 1870 but did not become law until 1st March,

> > 1875. It promised that all persons, regardless of

> > race, color, or previous condition, was entitled

> > to full and equal employment of accommodation in

> > "inns, public conveyances on land or water,

> > theaters, and other places of public amusement."

> >

> > In 1883 the Supreme Court declared the act as

> > unconstitutional and asserted that Congress did

> > not have the power to regulate the conduct and transactions of

> > individuals."

> >

> > Many of the provisions that were later passed in

> > the 1960's were taken from the original act.

> > And this was only accomplished after overcoming a Democrat filibuster.

> > Here are the yea-nea

> > Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)

> > Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)

> >

> > The Senate version:

> > Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)

> > Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

> >

> > The Senate version, voted on by the House:

> > Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)

> > Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

> >

> > Republicans led the fight for women’s rights, and

> > most suffragists were Republicans. In fact, Susan

> > B. Anthony bragged about how, after voting

> > (illegally) in 1872, she had voted a straight

> > Republican ticket. The suffragists included two

> > African-American women who were also co-founders

> > of the NAACP: Ida Wells and Mary Terrell, Republicans, both of them.

> >

> > Republican Senator Aaron Sargent wrote the

> > women’s suffrage amendment in 1878,though it

> > would not be passed by Congress until Republicans

> > again won control of both houses 40 years later.

> > It was in 1916 that the first woman was elected

> > to the U.S. House of Representatives, Republican

> > Jeannette Rankin. The first woman mayor was

> > elected in 1926, the Honorable Bertha Landes of

> > Seattle, another Republican.

> >

> > The KKK was from the Democrat wing and attacked

> > many republicans (not to mention all the others they bore hatred for).

> >

> > It was the party that made it possible for Obama to be where he is today.

> > ----------------------------------------------

> >

> > I hate gaudy shopping malls, I hate annoying ads

> > and I hate lots of shit out there. I can't stand

> > the radio for the most part either.

> > I lament everyday the loss of the vibe that NYC

> > once had and is now a yuppified condo filled blob

> > of land. I don't own ANY designer

> > brand name shirts, pants, socks, belts etc...

> >

> > "All the millions of ppl. trudging to work everyday to a job they hate."

> > Ahhhhh, so there should be no work? Would it be

> > ok to say at least they HAVE jobs and some sort of income?

> > Do we have to enjoy everything in life? Are we

> > all just gonna sit around in dance and song and advance, grow healthier,

> > more educated, watch as food miraculously pops

> > into our mouths while we lose the need for malaria shots?

> > In the US one of the biggest issues of the poor

> > and under privileged is OBESITY. Imagine that!

> >

> > Is that cloud of doom you see because of shitty

> > jobs or is it becomes lives today have nothing to strive for and are

> > empty and meaningless. Are all these faces only in "Capitalist countries"?

> >

> > I think my mother who came from Russia would have

> > quite a different opinion than you and would probably be able to give

> > you some insight how it was to live as a Jew

> > under the Russian communist rule. (in whatever form you care to call it)

> >

> > "Political lobbying by vested interests": That

> > applies to all parties throughout time. If you think this is a trade

> > unique to

> > Capitalism, you are sadly very mistaken.

> >

> > "People think they are better than other ppl.

> > based on income bracket": Once again, that is not

> > a Capitalist creation, nor a Republican

> > nor a Democrat, nor Communist, nor Marxist, nor

> > Trostskyite, nor Bolshevik.... I hope you get the point by now.

> >

> > "Plastic pieces of shit": I hate that as well and

> > I am quite picky with what I purchase. You get

> > what you pay for. If you don't like it

> > don't buy it. If you don't buy it they won't make

> > it (unless the Gov't/Nancy Pelosi/Obama forces

> > the car manufacturers to make more green

> > cars that no one seems to be buying). Did you

> > ever think that the little plastic piece of shit

> > can actually bring joy to a poor family who can't

> > afford anything quite grandiose?

> >

> > You might say "ahhh those filthy Capitalist pigs,

> > they're just brainwashing the kids with all those

> > toys and garbage." the poor parent might

> > see it as "geee, my kids friend has an Ipod and

> > can listen to music all the time but I can't

> > afford to get one for my kid, well at least I can get

> > my child some other sort of player."

> >

> > Excused me, no one is being forced to do

> > anything. At least not in the US. What exactly IS

> > a soulful job? What exactly are we

> > supposed to be seeing/doing? You've yet to describe that.

> >

> > Capitalism took a small country and turned it

> > into a megapower faster than any other nation.

> > Everything has it's faults and everything

> > can be exploited. You seem to not grasp this idea

> > and just focus on your bloodlust for "Capitalism". There ought to be

> > checks and

> > balances with proper implementation, when it's

> > not there... People get corrupt. It's everywhere buddy.

> >

> > Another little heads up, Most conservative

> > republicans (and Democrats) were against the bail

> > out, still are against the bailout.

> > All the masses of cash flowing is coming from

> > Senior Obama. I love it how people are all

> > shouting bloody murder about the 165 Million "Bonus"

> > that AIG is giving out while that is a SPIT in

> > the bucket compared to how our Gov't just totally ass raped us!

> >

> > Other than trying to catch up with religion in

> > the amount of people killed and tortured in the

> > name of "ideals" and having books banned,

> > censored, and people exiled. I can't quite bring

> > to mind any great additions to society that have come from Marxist ideals.

> >

> > Next time you feel like saying the word

> > "Republican" with venom I hope the short (but

> > lengthy for an Email) quick recap of the

> > "Republicans" comes to mind.

> >

> >

> > At 11:44 PM 3/18/2009, Brendan Quinn wrote:

> >>Most sane people wouldn’t claim that altruism is

> >>a trait exclusive to one political ideology, I

> >>wouldn’t bother continuing a conversation with

> >>anyone that did – what’s the point?

> >>

> >>I just dunno how anyone could defend modern

> >>capitalism – gaudy shopping malls, whole

> >>neighbourhoods full of soulless advertising

> >>that’s impossible to avoid (yes, I’ve been to

> >>LA…some parts of it gave me the total shits),

> >>cynical advertising steered by psychologists,

> >>aimed at kids, selling unnatural chemical

> >>concoctions as ‘food’, all the millions of

> >>people trudging to work every day at a job they

> >>hate (I’m so glad I don’t have to take the bus

> >>in to work in the mornings anymore because the

> >>cloud of doom amongst the condemned is

> >>depressing…), political (monetary) lobbying by

> >>powerful vested interests, people thinking they

> >>are better than other people because of their

> >>income bracket, planned obsolescence, plastic

> >>pieces of shit that don’t last 3 months,

> >>landfill full of heavy metals…Republicans…

> >>

> >>People being FORCED to help out is NOT acceptable.

> >>

> >>People being forced to work 40 hours a week at

> >>soulless jobs isn’t a great state of affairs

> >>either, being forced to put up with pollution,

> >>rampant destruction of natural resources,

> >>getting one vote every 4 years that means

> >>practically nothing in the scheme of things,

> >>getting ripped off by corporations and then

> >>expected to pay to bail them out…etc etc.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>----------

> > _______________________________________________

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> > Gathering at misera.net

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

> 

> 

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