[kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

[The Exorcist]

Ach! You're such a Stalinist!

At 04:16 PM 3/12/2009, Rheinhold Squeegee wrote:

>And I am satisfied to agree to disagree. Thanks 

>for not going all Godwin's and calling me a Nazi.

>

>

>----------

>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:12:32 -0400

>From: vassifer at earthlink.net

>To: gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>Here's the thing, though: I'd happily agree with you ...... if you were right.

>Alex in NYC

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Rheinhold Squeegee

>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 3:32 PM

>To: vassifer at earthlink.net, Gathering Gathering

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>Don't be so pedantic; it's all in good fun.

>

>"LLB" is a goth tune because:

>1. It contains all the widely accepted hallmarks 

>of "goth" music, i.e. minor keys, dark, 

>keyboard-driven, "high-pitched basslines", 

>"tribal beats", "foreboding, sorrowful, epic soundscapes" (wikipediia)

>2.Thematically, it deals with the juxtaposition 

>of love and death using "depressing" and 

>"introspective" lyrics; it speaks of struggle, 

>anguish and loss. These are all goth memes.

>3. It is widely acknowledged as a goth tune by 

>actual goths, such as they are. Check the 

>playlist of any goth club night or radio show. 

>While it's presence on any one of them does not 

>confirm the song's "gothiness", it's presence on ALL of them surely does.

>

>Reductive arguments and relativist fallacies 

>aside, I think the song is goth; you don't.

>

>In a nutshell: "If it walks like a duck, and 

>quacks like a duck, there's a pretty good chance it's a duck."

>

>

>----------

>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:09:27 -0400

>From: vassifer at earthlink.net

>To: gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>

>"There is no doubt that 'LLB' is a goth tune."

>

>That the band wrote a tune that Goths like 

>doesn't render the band themselves Goths. Goths 

>like "Paint It Black" by the Stones -- does that make THEM goths?

>Alex in NYC

>

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Rheinhold Squeegee

>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 2:54 PM

>To: vassifer at earthlink.net, Gathering Gathering

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>In Mick Mercer's "Goth Bible" he identifies the 

>original cornerstones of Goth as Bauhaus, 

>Theatre of Hate and Killing Joke. He then 

>quickly notes that KJ then moved in an entirely 

>new direction and tried valiantly to distance 

>themselves from that what they had wrought. But 

>maybe Mercer's an idiot who doesn't know anything.

>

>There is no doubt that "LLB" is a goth tune. 

>Funny thing is, I've been to many a 

>"Goth"-themed club night in my day, and "LLB" is 

>literally the only KJ song that they'll ever 

>play, at least in the Midwestern backwaters I 

>have haunted. I think the general consensus 

>would be that Killing Joke were originators of a 

>certain philosophical "vibe" that turned quickly 

>to simple fashion and was then appropriated by 

>fat girls in fishnets and too much eye makeup. 

>The ideological link is there; the musical link, however, is brief and tenuous.

>

>

>----------

>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:35:06 -0400

>From: vassifer at earthlink.net

>To: gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>The Horrors aren't bad, actually. They're 

>possibly the *LEAST ORIGINAL BAND EVER*, but their music isn't awful.

>Killing Joke, meanwhile, were not -- are not -- 

>and never will be -- a goth band. Neither is/was Joy Division.

>Alex in NYC

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: countessghoulita at aol.com

>Sent: Mar 12, 2009 2:09 PM

>To: gathering at misera.net

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>

>The Horrors? Who the heck are they? I did not 

>know that the Jonas Brothers would put on some 

>mascara and play their douche "goth" version 

>(not before using their parents' credit card at Hot Topic).

>

>And what about all these new bands? Again 

>Marilyn Manson? NME is totally ignoring Rozz 

>Williams. If NME quotes the Misfits, they should 

>have quoted Christian Death for sake of information (aka Deathrock).

>

>As far as Killing Joke is concerned, there are 

>other songs that may represent what goth 

>philosophy may be:  "Primitive", "Darkness 

>Before Dawn" (Melinda, you nailed it :) ), "Exorcism"...

>

>Sorry, the old geezer in me is speaking out...

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Karen Weil <karen.weil at sddt.com>

>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) <gathering at misera.net>

>Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:19 am

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>Agree with Milinda, but "Love" is truly a great 

>tune, goth or otherwise. Now, I have to check out this list!

>

>k.w.

>The States

>----- Original Message -----

>From: <mailto:hollytree1961 at hotmail.com>melinda grant

>To: <mailto:gathering at misera.net>thegathering mailing list

>Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:33 AM

>Subject: Re: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

>nice one ;) darkness befor the dawn should of been in the also!

>

>milindafgrant

>

>

>----------

>From: <mailto:circusbar at uol.com.br>circusbar at uol.com.br

>To: <mailto:gathering at misera.net>gathering at misera.net

>Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:23:21 -0300

>Subject: [kj] The 20 greatest goth tracks?

>

><http://www.nme.com/photos/727/3/the-20-greatest-goth-tracks>http://www.nme.com/photos/727/3/the-20-greatest-goth-tracks

>

>They put LOVE LIKE BLOOD into the 20 greatest goth tracks ever

>

>d ia z

>

>

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