[kj] Official Site

ade ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk
Wed Apr 1 18:48:37 EDT 2009


You amaze me Greg, you really do! Born yesterday... to think you teach is just astounding!

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON
Sent: 01 April 2009 18:20
To: gathering
Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site


Hey, SL might be brainwashed by the JW's but he seems like a nice guy.


_____

From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 03:43:05 +1100
Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site



I believe the values behind Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism are all morally wrong, not based on evidence, and heading in a pointless direction. I don’t buy into the fact that they were ever useful for much, at least not compared to similar actual / possible beliefs in the supernatural that were less manipulative.



Buddhism is a self-destructive belief system – as long as there are people in the world ready to kill you if you if you are willing to not defend yourself. It’s a recipe for the destruction of the goals it seeks to attain. Until at least there is no one willing to slaughter you and the rest of your willing lambs to the slaughter that is…don’t hold your breath for that day, not as long as there are religious loons around.



Non resistance to evil is evil.



It also has a similar trait to Christianity in that it seeks enlightenment…the purging of negative (read: bad) thoughts and actions until one attains enlightenment / Nirvana. I.e. we are inherently bad. Again the idea of multiple lives and belief in the supernatural, angels in the form of Boddhisatvas etc. Buddhism of all of the religions disappoints me the most because they have some otherwise positive and interesting ideas. At the end of the day it’s a weird abstraction as far as I’m concerned. I believe you can attain deeper states of meditation and consciousness expansion through Yoga, drugs, sensory deprivation, and brainwave machines. And occasionally a nice satisfying shit (which I’m sure would make a Zen master smile and say I’m learning…).



Islam is another flavour of the big 3 Judaeo Christian religions, same problems. Built around Jihad / eternal salvation / damnation and manipulation via invented supernatural entities for which there is zero proof. Ditto for Judaism…all that wall kissing and repetition of mantras…that’s not holy.



The Bible was never relevant, neither were the teachings of Shake-your-money the Buddha or Muhammad the nutcase or whatever stupid book the Jews unthinkingly follow.



Most religion is manipulation of the stupid by the evil. No one has yet raised the negative correlation of religiosity and intelligence. Happy to do that here and now, I think our resident annoying Christian troll Stephen Lawrence - can’t spell, use grammar, look up a word he doesn’t understand, get his head around concepts, think for himself, realise the irony in him calling arguments rehashed - is a pretty good example of that.




_____


From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On Behalf Of Rob's Arse
Sent: Thursday, 2 April 2009 03:16
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site



"but it was only for the ruling classes and the prieshood "- actually that was the point I was trying to make! The bible and the stories and the preaching were there as an education tool for those who did not have access to the education. I actually believe that the bible was a really useful tool in bringing balance to the world and giving some poor soul some rights.

As for Holy Communions- that was to try to add some weight to my argument that the "values of christianity are rather nice, rather like the values of communism, but the reality is that they are contolled and enforced by people and organisations that use them for their own good. It is the people BEHIND the religion who are the wrong doers. The people that follow these fools, the congregation, perpetuate the myths and never question enough. The sole focus of "jesus as the shining light" as it were means that so, so much wrong doing is overlooked or ignored. And that is what is so wrong as Jesus, if you believe his press, would have said "hang on mate. That's not on!" SO many religious ethusiasts (of all faiths) ignore the shit in their back yard!!

The world today is differnt to the world 2,000 years ago. Did Jesus have to deal with his carbon foot print? Global warming? Nope.
Needs a rewrite. Someone in hollywood can probably do that.

The bible is NOT relevant to modern man. Sorry to disagree.



www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

--- stephen.l at live.com wrote:

From: Stephen Lawrence <stephen.l at live.com>
To: "joker at z6.com" <joker at z6.com>
Subject: RE: [kj] Official Site
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:43:14 +0000

rob your statement about reading and writing 2thousand years ago doesn't hold water early civilization was very eloquent but it was only for the ruling classes and the prieshood ..but with jehovah's people the educated did not mis;ead the people ..at first ..holy communoin is another man made ritual ..yes we shoould remember the last supper as jesus instructed but the symbolic breaking of bread and drinking of wine should only be offerd as a token of worship and NOT every week and only by the designated leader of the congregation ....do you know why there is a problem with food nowadays? disregarding corporate meddling ..over farming something the bible gave guidance about 2.000 years ago ..not relevant todsay ? another example of mankind suffering because he ignores god



_____


Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 08:15:10 -0700
From: joker at Z6.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site



The bible as a handbook for life 2,000 years ago was pretty valid I have to say.We're talking about very uneducated people who could not read and write well and the notion of law as we see it these days was very ill defined. Simple instruction to people about how to conduct themselves. Useful.

However, 2,000 years on and it's just not relevant is it? I mean, I don't use a VCR manual to work out how to programme my pc do I?

I know good people who have never done bad in their life and "Jehovah took away his protection" and they were "smited". Similarly, total fucking arseholes roam the Earth unscathed! It just doesn't work like that Stephen. God/Jehovah/Dave isn't selective! He is meant to not interfere as he gave us free will, so "god's will" that much over used phrase is invalid. Either God interevens, puts it right and then controls or he doesn't. There is no grey area for me.

The writhing mass of contradiction that is Christianity is redundant. The principles are great, be nice, have respect, show concer, share. The reality is that it is controlled and enforced by The Church. A more devious bunch of crooks than can ever be imagined. They make the Mafia look like alter boys!


But there is one underlying thing that really makes me uncomfortable with christianity, and it is this..

I cannot condone a system of belief that holds up acts of human sacrifice and canibalism* as virtuous!

If you were to ask someone in modern times if they would follow a religion such as that outlined above, they would be horrified. It conjures up an image of people with bones through their noses running round the jungle. When in fact it is actually, quite probably, your next door neighbour. Teh problem is, they just never thought about it like that, or more likely, no-one ever told 'em cos it was all swept under the carpet nicely!

Stephen, this isn't about having a go at you by the way on a personal basis. Far from it. It's just part of the debate. I like theologiocal debate. My brother in law just got his degree in it. He's 100% committed and squirms when I ask difficult questions. He and his wife mutter and have to walk away as they cannot deal with the reality of it! That's not good enough. There should be a robust answer and explanation,. not just a tired 2000 year old line about "God's will" or some similar half hearted platitiude- that's doing an injustice to the whole belief system.



* The act of holy communion.
Sorry to patronise but the doctrine of the Catholic Church believes that the wine actually turns to the blood of Christ and the bread to the body whereas other forms of Christianity see it as symbolism.





www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

--- stephen.l at live.com wrote:

From: Stephen Lawrence <stephen.l at live.com>
To: "gathering at misera.net" <gathering at misera.net>
Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:20:34 +0000

ah so brendan all you are doing is quoting other misinformed and misgiuded people ...actually that quote about the bible contradicting is SO overused ...anyone such as myself who has STUDIED [ clue ]the bible NOT read as it is not a book but a collection of books dealing with early man's relationship with jehovah and HIS guidance ..it even shows what happens when they ignore HIM and HE takes away HIS protection...the new testament deals with jesus's teachings and sacrifice so that we may have our sins forgiven but only if we earnestly endeavor not to continue commiting those sins because sin is commiting acts that are displeasing to jehovah be it lying ,stealing ,cheating ,drunkenness etc ...and yes it IS difficult in a world that half heartedly condemns such things while promoting te tools to do such things ..how many leaders do you see guiding by example ...the only human being to do that was JESUS ..so if you really want to find out what the bible teaches take alook


> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:10:30 +1300

> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site

>

> I'd read the bible by the time I was 10 or 11 , don't confuse disagreement

> with lack of awareness. The thing is chock full of contradictions, and

> this sums up what I think about it:

>

> The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in

> all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving

> control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic,

> homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential,

> megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

>

> Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, first sentence of Chapter 1.

>

> Here's an interesting comment from the site I got the quote from, someone

> who has seen the truth:

>

> Dave, I "trusted Jesus" for 30+ years..... He just doesn't stand by his

> promises. People in antiquity created God in order to make some sort of

> sense out of life's chaos. We now know that this chaos and randomness is

> simply the way life is. God or the gods are no longer players in reality.

> WAKE UP! Ask yourself if the Holy Spirit really aids you and helps you do

> things that are godly. If you are honest, you will realize that it is all

> in your head. No outside (or inside) force helps you get through life. It

> is merely your own delusional imagination telling you that God is there

> with you.

>

> Greg (former Christian)

>

>

> >

> > hhhmmm brendan your arguement is flawed in that it shows you have not

> > studied the bible or you would know what i mean about bible wisdom even

> > down to the wisdom about doing things in moderation whethrer it be eating

> > or exercising..have a go at the book proverbs ..and then see how you feel

> > ..i am not familiar with nietzsche andregarding the killing joke lyric

> > that also shows jaz's ignorance of bible teaching as none of us will get

> > back what is in this world as it is going to be destroyed to make way for

> > jehovah's kingdom '' man has stumbled around like a demented child king

> > long enough'' ..recognise that quote ?...although i believe i have a good

> > command of the english language i either have forgotten or in fact don't

> > know what an oxymoron is ....christendom is definitly NOT what

> > christianity is all about but in fact man's own perverted version of it

> > just as jesus said would happen when he left but jehovah in his patience

> > and wisdom has given mankind time to turn back to him but know's man's

> > sinful nature will prevent him ...so he will establish HIS kingdom to save

> > mankind from itself

> >

> >

> >

> > From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:15:40 +1100

> > Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > No, actually, that’s not what Christianity is all about at all, and ‘Bible

> > Wisdom’ is an oxymoron.

> >

> > As Nietzsche pointed out, it’s all about taking the centre of gravity out

> > of the here and now and putting it into some myth of Heaven and Hell.

> >

> > SAY YOU’LL GET IT ALL BACK GET IT ALL BACK GET IT ALL BACK.

> >

> >

> > Recognise the quote?

> >

> > PS: Christianity perverts sexuality more than homosexuality. The Pope is

> > against effective birth control for starving AIDS-ridden Africans. And the

> > catholic church (amongst others) is under assault from all the cases of

> > priests’ kiddie fiddling. You couldn’t find an organisation where it was

> > more institutionalised.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]

> > On Behalf Of Stephen Lawrence

> > Sent: Wednesday, 1 April 2009 11:59

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site

> >

> > not grim jo realistic as in biblical wisdom of live for today for you

> > never know what tomorrow may bring

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:41:54 +0100

> > Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site

> >

> > Oh you grim bugger. My eyes! >: reading your post.

> >

> > This Summer is going to be gorgeous - I've sown my heart with my seeds.

> >

> >

> >

> > if you are genuinely talking about the weather ..i'd say this unnaturally

> > warm for this time of year is a lull before the storm which may or may not

> > herald a heatwave or a washout of a summer like last year with a pleasant

> > autumn as consolation prize

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:18:33 +0100

> > Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site

> >

> >

> > S'ok sweet pea.

> >

> > We're in for a lovely Spring; don't you think? :-))

> >

> >

> >

> > thanks for that jo your support in the past has not gone unnoticed

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > From: jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk

> > To: gathering at misera.net

> > Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:06:49 +0100

> > Subject: Re: [kj] Official Site

> >

> > I can roll with that SL.

> >

> > Fools that fuck only for fun.

> >

> >

> >

> > what utter bollocks brendan ..it's stupid statements like that that

> > enforces stereotyping of women and men and teaches a distorted view of sex

> > which is not just for recreation but the procreation of life ..it makes

> > both men and women feel inadequate and enforces false body image in other

> > words porn perverts the act of making love and destoys relationships

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Windows Live Hotmail just got better. Find out more!

> >

> >

> >

> >

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