[kj] Hossanas - democracy

[Christof hamille]

well I was referring to the advance.  In the current climate of the music industry and the current size of Killing Joke (units sold globally on average since 2003) I doubt they see much (if any) post-album sales royalty checks.  Even if Hosannas was the best album they ever wrote the production is nothing short of awful.  At least Gill's production sounded proper, whether you like the tones or not.  I didn't even bother with the re-gifting Gof release.

But I think we always disagreed on this one.

On a different but related note.  I question as to whether they could align themselves with someone better for North America distribution.  The Cooking Vinyl/Candlelight/whomever else is related is tough to find here.  Maybe it my area.  But I've looked in other States with similar results.  I know we are in the digital age.  But even the promotion in North America seems slim to none.

Hope you are doing well Greg.  

Chris from Detroit

From: gregslawson at msn.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:16:37 -0400
Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy








Based on how many HossanASS cd's were sold in the US (5?) i don't think they "took" 

much money, Chris! I also think the album sounds ok and has a fuller, more mid-rangey

sound than 2003, which i think has a bit of a brittle tinge to the sound (kind of like Gill's

production on GOF's recent re-recordings--I liked the origianal GOF albums bettter).







From: wessidetempest at hotmail.com
To: gathering at misera.net
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:03:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy




OTG sounds dated.  And maybe that is Jaz experimenting with the mathematical, flippity floppidy doo thingy.  Or maybe it is just bad writing.

Pandemonium was a nice return but Youth's involvement is obvious (not a bad thing)

Democracy shows promise but a band that ran its course for the moment (with Youth being back) which results in half-hearted production.  I think the writing was there.

2003 is the best, in my opinion, of the later day stuff.  Great production and NOT over-bloated song writing.  Lengths are good.  Styles are varied.  Drumming is excellent (which is lacking on Pandemonium and Democracy)

Hosannas just screams that they took the money and ran.  Built a "studio", smoked cigars....etc.  They used the line that they were recording like they did in the early days.  Ala number of tracks, producer, etc.  Sometimes technology improves things for the better.  Killing Joke is not a lo-fi band ala Ween.  And the early material sounds a shit hot better than Hossanas.  They tried going on the cheap and it bit them in the arse.

Chris


> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 03:58:33 +0200

> To: gathering at misera.net

> From: spooman at freenet.de

> Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy

> 

> Neither OTG, Democracy or Hosannas are favorites in my book. On the 

> the other hand I'll have to say that I really love the fact that KJ 

> have always tried totally different approaches sound- and 

> songwritingwise. To me America, Stay one jump ahead, Tiahuanaco and 

> the title track are interesting songs. I just hate the production. I 

> also like the Democracy attempt of trying to fit in acoustic guitars. 

> In my opinion there are very good songs here, too. Obviously that 

> attempt has to be called a failure - but the idea in itself is quite 

> interesting and I think there's quite a bunch of hints on the album 

> that it could have been great.

> Releasing an album such as Hosannas after the "perfect" new school 

> Gill production of KJ 2003 tells me that the band is not playing it 

> safe. And that's something I really appreciate, although I'm not a 

> fan of this one production-wise again. But songs like Invocation, 

> Walking with gods and Judas Goat do work in my opinion.

> I think KJ frequently made the wrong decisions concerning production. 

> F.e. I think the original Pandemonium mixes are among the best they 

> ever did whereas Youth's "then-new metal" album production makes it 

> sound dated today. Given the ceaseless KJ-rereleases lately I'm 

> optimistic we'll have the chance of buying the complete original 

> Pandemonium mixes someday. And I'm thrilled beyond words to 

> experience Pandemonium live in Belgium. Sorry for the questionable english...

> 

> Marcel - Koblenz, Germany

> 

> At 19:09 15.09.2008, you wrote:

> >Send Gathering mailing list submissions to

> > gathering at misera.net

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> >

> >

> >The Gathering - Digest

> >

> >Today's Topics:

> >

> > 1. Re: Hossanas - democracy (Elana Mojica)

> > 2. Re: Current Fav K.J. song (Darren A. Peace)

> > 3. recent gig pics yet ? (ze king)

> > 4. Re: recent gig pics yet ? (folk devil)

> > 5. MD Crack Butt Blues (Change)

> > 6. Re: Current Fav K.J. song (Change)

> > 7. You don't have to listen to Hell if you don't like the way it

> > sounds (Change)

> > 8. Re: MD Crack Butt Blues (folk devil)

> > 9. OT: Pink Floyd's Rick Wright dies (Alex Smith)

> > 10. Re: Hossanas - democracy (Alex Smith)

> > 11. Re: Hossanas - democracy (folk devil)

> >

> >

> >----------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 1

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:58:48 -0700 (PDT)

> >From: Elana Mojica <elana_mojica at yahoo.com>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke \(the band!\)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <225981.79577.qm at web57310.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >

> >Prozac People, Lanterns (which i played at Jester and Jeanie's 

> >funeral's) Absent Friends (also played) I love Medicine Wheel, and 

> >Another Bloody Election all great songs

> >

> >

> >

> >----- Original Message ----

> >From: folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com>

> >To: gathering at misera.net

> >Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 10:56:39 AM

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy

> >

> > there are some good tracks on democracy :)

> >'intellect', for one.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >________________________________

> >

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:15:08 -0400

> >From: vassifer at earthlink.net

> >To: gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.net

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas

> >

> >

> > I bet it'll join the ranks of DEMOCRACY and OUTSIDE THE GATE in 

> > being an album whose songs are rarely -- if ever -- played live.

> >Alex in NYC

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: mike

> >Sent: Sep 15, 2008 11:01 AM

> >To: gathering at misera.net

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas

> >

> > I'd love to hear the bands thoughts on the album now.

> >Production..recording does suck tremendously.

> >I still like half the songs though.

> >

> >

> >________________________________

> > Use Windows Live Messenger to send messages to your buddies on 

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> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 2

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:16:52 +0100

> >From: "Darren A. Peace" <dpeace at bigfoot.com>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Current Fav K.J. song

> >To: "'Alex Smith'" <vassifer at earthlink.net>, "'A list about all things

> > Killing Joke \(the band!\)'" <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <01c701c9174e$7c559040$7500b0c0$@com>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >

> >Heh! Wasn't trying to make a pariah out of you; I accept you're not alone in

> >your view, although I don't remember reading that anyone else prefers OTG to

> >Hosannas.

> >

> >Actually, as a result of your post, I've been mowing the lawn with Hosannas

> >at My Bloody Valentine volumes on my iPod, and it's fucking great! Works

> >best at earsplitting volume, imo, and for those who object to the song

> >lengths, there's always that 5-track promo of edited versions. The bassines,

> >which are too buried at lower volumes, are great too, and I like Ben's

> >drumming. I think, though, that the full track lengths help the drone aspect

> >of the album - quite why the infrequent second chord in Invocation is so

> >exciting, I don't know.

> >

> >My least favourite album proper is Democracy. Geordie and acoustic guitars?

> >That's fundamentally wrong. Apart from Aeon (which is superb), I don't

> >really like any track on the album, and Prozac People is Jaz's worst lyric.

> >And he's written some stinkers. Can't listen to "Goodbye To The Village"

> >because of that awful line about rabbit hutches (although otherwise it's a

> >good song; maybe it's just the way he sings those two words).

> >

> >I *like* Outside The Gate in large part. Crappy syn-drums and all. The title

> >track is genuinely exciting to me, even the coda (I'll pretend Geordie's not

> >playing an acoustic guitar there, so as not to destroy my thesis).

> >

> >And the more I listen to it, the more I rate the new Metallica. Expunge the

> >aural diarrhoea that is St Anger and give this one a try. Really. I think

> >you'll be surprised.

> >

> >Judas Goat.

> >

> >Darren

> >Hungerford, UK

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On

> >Behalf Of Alex Smith

> >Sent: 15 September 2008 16:17

> >To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!); 'A list about all

> >things Killing Joke (the band!)'

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Current Fav K.J. song

> >

> >

> >"While I have a lot of time or Alex and his opinions"

> >

> >Ummm...it's not just *MY* opinion. Leigh (among others) agrees with me.

> >

> >Alex in NYC

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 3

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000

> >From: ze king <zeking_33 at hotmail.com>

> >Subject: [kj] recent gig pics yet ?

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <BAY135-W8D6E9CD6AC314F9C9BD1184520 at phx.gbl>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> >

> >

> >anyone ?ze king.

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Dit schooljaar ben jij gratis de held online!

> >http://get.live.com

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> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 4

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:37:40 -0700

> >From: folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] recent gig pics yet ?

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <BAY107-W512BEDB53DA412D112FE9EED520 at phx.gbl>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> >

> >

> >need to get a slimline for the LA gig...'NO CAMERAS'...

> >will put md in buttcrack, too...."

> >

> >

> >

> >From: zeking_33 at hotmail.comTo: gathering at misera.netDate: Mon, 15 Sep 

> >2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [kj] recent gig pics yet ?

> >

> >

> >anyone ?ze king.

> >

> >

> >

> >Vanaf nu heb je je vrienden overal bij! Messenger voor Mobile

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.

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> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 5

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:43:21 +0000 (GMT)

> >From: Change <crackedmachine at yahoo.co.uk>

> >Subject: [kj] MD Crack Butt Blues

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke \(the band!\)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <460102.84932.qm at web23206.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

> >

> >Ah so so so

> >Was this MD in crack wot iPat was on about when he was making up 

> >shit up the ass?

> >

> >Me, I prefer the wigglin' tongue of an Oriental lady, butt each to his own!

> >

> >--- On Mon, 15/9/08, folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> >

> > > From: folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com>

> > > Subject: Re: [kj] recent gig pics yet ?

> > > To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> > > Date: Monday, 15 September, 2008, 5:37 PM

> > > need to get a slimline for the LA gig...'NO

> > > CAMERAS'...

> > > will put md in buttcrack, too...."

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > From: zeking_33 at hotmail.comTo: gathering at misera.netDate:

> > > Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [kj] recent gig pics

> > > yet ?

> > >

> > >

> > > anyone ?ze king.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Vanaf nu heb je je vrienden overal bij! Messenger voor

> > > Mobile

> > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone

> > > with Windows Live.

> > > 

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/_______________________________________________

> > > Gathering mailing list

> > > Gathering at misera.net

> > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 6

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:47:53 +0000 (GMT)

> >From: Change <crackedmachine at yahoo.co.uk>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Current Fav K.J. song

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke \(the band!\)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <720725.65459.qm at web23201.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Ummm...it's not just *MY* opinion. Leigh (among others)

> > > agrees with me.

> > >

> > > Alex in NYC

> > >

> > >

> >Aye Aye

> >but he likes OASIS...

> >

> >

> >Jesus Christ!!!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 7

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:52:23 +0000 (GMT)

> >From: Change <crackedmachine at yahoo.co.uk>

> >Subject: [kj] You don't have to listen to Hell if you don't like the

> > way it sounds

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke \(the band!\)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <909786.48695.qm at web23202.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

> >

> >

> >

> > > From: jon chapman <jonniespatula at hotmail.co.uk>

> > > Subject: Re: [kj] Current Fav K.J. song

> > > To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

> > <gathering at misera.net>

> > > Date: Monday, 15 September, 2008, 4:14 PM

> > > totally! that and gratitude are simply brilliant.

> > >

> >

> >I love Majestic Gods Go Psycho

> >

> >but it is all good even if Lightbringer goes way OTT

> >

> > > i like the production.

> > >

> >

> >Sounds good to me.

> >I bet it sounds best on vinyl though, and I only have CD.

> >

> > >

> > > > > Two words : Judas Goat.> > While I have a

> > > lot of time or Alex and his opinions, this one is just

> > > wrong.> Laziness in failure to edit the songs is one

> > > thing, and it's not their best> sounding album by any

> > > stretch of the imagination, but Geordie's work is>

> > > incandescent on Hosannas.> > Worst album is the

> > > Cortauld Talks, from its spermy cover to its bollocks>

> > > contents. Wonder how many times it's sold on iTunes?

> > > I'd like to see the> face of someone who's just

> > > endured the 5 day download and has fired up their> first

> > > listen.> > And did I mention Judas Goat?> >

> > > Darren> Hungerford, UK > > > -----Original

> > > Message-----> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

> > > [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On> Behalf Of

> > > Alexander Smith> Sent: 15 September 2008 12:24> To: A

> > > list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)> Subject:

> > > Re: [kj] Current Fav K.J. song> > > With all due

> > > respect to Oliver, I think HOSANNAS is the worst thing KJ

> > > > have ever done (yes, worse than OUTSIDE THE GATE).>

> > > > Alex in NYC> >

> > > _______________________________________________>

> > > Gathering mailing list> Gathering at misera.net>

> > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> > > _________________________________________________________________

> > > Win New York holidays with Kellogg?s & Live Search

> > > 

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/111354033/direct/01/_______________________________________________

> > > Gathering mailing list

> > > Gathering at misera.net

> > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 8

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:53:03 -0700

> >From: folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] MD Crack Butt Blues

> >To: <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <BAY107-W5034C51E74938C01529574ED520 at phx.gbl>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

> >

> >

> >i think the rimming might interfere with the recording...> Date: 

> >Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:43:21 +0000> From: crackedmachine at yahoo.co.uk> 

> >To: gathering at misera.net> Subject: [kj] MD Crack Butt Blues> > Ah so 

> >so so> Was this MD in crack wot iPat was on about when he was making 

> >up shit up the ass?> > Me, I prefer the wigglin' tongue of an 

> >Oriental lady, butt each to his own!> > --- On Mon, 15/9/08, folk 

> >devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com> wrote:> > > From: folk devil 

> ><folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com>> > Subject: Re: [kj] recent gig pics yet 

> >?> > To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 

> ><gathering at misera.net>> > Date: Monday, 15 September, 2008, 5:37 

> >PM> > need to get a slimline for the LA gig...'NO> > CAMERAS'...> > 

> >will put md in buttcrack, too...."> > > > > > > > From: 

> >zeking_33 at hotmail.comTo: gathering at misera.netDate:> > Mon, 15 Sep 

> >2008 16:32:51 +0000Subject: [kj] recent gig pics> > yet ?> > > > > > 

> >anyone ?ze king.> > > > > > > > Vanaf nu heb je je vrienden overal bij! Messen

> > ger voor> > Mobile > > 

> > _________________________________________________________________> > 

> > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone> > 

> > with Windows Live.> > 

> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/_______________________________________________> 

> > > Gathering mailing list> > Gathering at misera.net> > 

> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering> > > > 

> > _______________________________________________> Gathering mailing 

> > list> Gathering at misera.net> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go.

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> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 9

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:05:30 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

> >From: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>

> >Subject: [kj] OT: Pink Floyd's Rick Wright dies

> >To: crackedmachine at yahoo.co.uk, "A list about all things Killing Joke

> > (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>, "A list about all 

> > things Killing

> > Joke (the band!)" <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID:

> > 

> ><3994455.1221498330567.JavaMail.root at mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

> >

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

> >

> >

> >Very sad.

> >

> >

> >http://entertainment.msn.com/news/article.aspx?news=330735

> >

> >Alex in NYC

> >

> >

> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 10

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:06:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

> >From: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy

> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > <gathering at misera.net>, gathering at misera.net

> >Message-ID:

> > 

> ><21473464.1221498376718.JavaMail.root at mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

> >

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> >

> >An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

> >URL: 

> ><http://four.pairlist.net/pipermail/gathering/attachments/20080915/4616f3a0/attachment-0001.htm>

> >

> >------------------------------

> >

> >Message: 11

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:09:41 -0700

> >From: folk devil <folkdevil_23 at hotmail.com>

> >Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy

> >To: <gathering at misera.net>

> >Message-ID: <BAY107-W3986DFC8D0D2894C10CF6AED520 at phx.gbl>

> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> >

> >

> >hmmm...never :[

> >

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:06:16 -0400From: vassifer at earthlink.netTo: 

> >gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.netSubject: Re: [kj] Hossanas 

> >- democracy

> >

> >

> >

> >That wasn't my point. There are some GREAT songs on DEMOCRACY 

> >("Aeon" chiefly among them), but when was the last time you heard 

> >any of them performed live?

> >

> >Alex in NYC

> >-----Original Message----- From: folk devil Sent: Sep 15, 2008 11:56 

> >AM To: gathering at misera.net Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas - democracy

> >

> >there are some good tracks on democracy :)'intellect', for one.

> >

> >Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:15:08 -0400From: vassifer at earthlink.netTo: 

> >gathering at misera.net; gathering at misera.netSubject: Re: [kj] Hossanas

> >

> >I bet it'll join the ranks of DEMOCRACY and OUTSIDE THE GATE in 

> >being an album whose songs are rarely -- if ever -- played live.Alex in NYC

> >-----Original Message----- From: mike Sent: Sep 15, 2008 11:01 AM 

> >To: gathering at misera.net Subject: Re: [kj] Hossanas

> >

> >I'd love to hear the bands thoughts on the album 

> >now.Production..recording does suck tremendously.I still like half 

> >the songs though.

> >

> >Use Windows Live Messenger to send messages to your buddies on their 

> >mobile phones Find out more on our PC to Mobile website

> >

> >Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with 

> >Windows Live. See Now

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