[kj] Why havent the Left got Georgia on their minds

[fluke fluke]

"but I'm afraid Georgia started this."
 
 
It isnt as simple as that There are other  factors involved , one is the irresponsible behavior of the Clinton and Bush Administration in pushing for admission into NATO of the countries surroundingRussia. Basically, we were telling RUssia, the cold war is over but we are still going to act like it is on going. If the purpose of letting these nations into NATO was not based on a perception that the Russians were still the enemy, then why did NATO rebuff the Russians when they sought to join NATO also.  The Russians reasonably saw these moves by NATO, which were pushed by the Clinton andBush as actions hostile to them. It is hard to interpret them otherwise.    I have no doubt that the reason why Georgia felt free to undertake a military invasionwas that they believed that the NATO and the US would back them up, militarily if necessary. and that would cause the Russians not to interfere with the Georgian invasion.That was extremely naive on the part of Georgia, There was no way that NATO or the USwas going to go to war with Russia on behalf of Georgia. But Georgia, not without reason,thought that its association with NATO meant something. IT turns out it did not. The Russians called NATO's bluff, correctly it appears and therefore reacted with fullforce, which Georgia did not anticipate and I strongly doubt the Americans  ever trained theGeorgian forces for war for since it would have been a ridiculous to think that the Republic ofGeorgia would ever be able to take on the full Russian military. The Germans could notin WW II and they were far better trained than the Georgians were ever going to be. What this is a defeat or at least put into relief was the grossly irresponsible behaviorof the Clinton and BUsh administrations in expanding NATO right up to the RUssianborders without expecting Russia to react but just passively accept this. And Bush, whonever fails not to learn anything from his mistakes, just made matters worse by enteringinto an agreement with Poland which essentially commits the US to the defense ofPoland. I hope the Poles are not so naive to believe that that agreement is worth a damnthing. 



From: karen.weil at sddt.comTo: gathering at misera.netDate: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:36:12 -0700Subject: Re: [kj] (OT)Why haven't the Left got Georgia on their minds?



Fluke:
 
Appreciate your impassioned response, but I'm afraid Georgia started this. NO ONE is defending Russia's actions (and unlike the illustrious George W. Bush, some of us had Putin's number a long time ago). 
Unfortunately, while some of the anti-Bush rhetoric is silly and hateful, most of it is justified. 
Sorry. 
 
k.w.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: fluke fluke 
To: gathering at misera.net 
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 1:27 AM
Subject: [kj] (OT)Why haven't the Left got Georgia on their minds?
Pity I was away last week. I must have missed the march through London against the Russian invasion of Georgia. What a magnificent sight it must have been - half a million protesters standing firm against tyranny and supporting freedom and democracy.I'd have loved to have heard Red Ken denouncing the bloodthirsty gangster regime in Moscow, George Galloway comparing Vladimir Putin to Hitler and Tony Benn declaring it was all about oil.What's that you say? There was no such rally? I suppose they must all have been too busy demonstrating against Chinese oppression in Tibet and demanding a boycott of the Beijing Olympics.Or perhaps not. Funny how the Not In My Name crowd always overlooks aggression by Communist or 'former' Communist regimes.There's no such reticence when it comes to portraying George W. Bush as the new Hitler or daubing swastikas on the Israeli flag. Look at the protests against the wars in Iraq and Lebanon.The same people who can't wait to burn the American flag in Trafalgar Square are only too happy to ignore Russian, Chinese and Iraqi genocide.Where were all the marchers when the Russians were crushing Chechnya? Why so silent on Tibet? They must have been looking the other way when Saddam slaughtered the Kurds.It hasn't been difficult to find apologists for the invasion of Georgia. We're told that the 'American-educated' Mikhail Saakashvili provoked the Russians beyond all reason. What did we expect encouraging the spread of democracy in former Soviet satellite states?No wonder Moscow feels threatened when independent countries it once ruled by military might become members of the European Union and apply to join Nato.Putting a Western missile defence system in Poland is like waving a red rag at a bull, the sophisticates say. Putin has no option but to retaliate.I don't remember them demanding the withdrawal of Soviet nukes pointing at Western capitals from East Germany. Back then, the Guardianistas were all for one-sided disarmament on our  part.The Left has always been picky about their protests. While they rightly denounce white racism in South Africa, they stay silent on black racism in Zimbabwe.They bang on about American cultural imperialism, but have nothing to say about Russian or Chinese military imperialism.America is constantly denounced for its 'yuman rites' abuses, but you never hear a dicky bird about the denial of basic freedoms in China or throughout the Muslim world.Europe's Leftists define themselves by their hatred of the U.S., yet cheerfully tolerate all kinds of tyranny elsewhereThey're against 'torture' at Guantanamo Bay, but take a relaxed view of Chinese and Russian death squads.There are still plenty of 'comrades' in the Labour Party and the trades union movement who regret the day the Berlin Wall came tumbling down. They're only too willing to give succour to the enemies of freedom and democracy around the world.So the official line is that the war in Iraq was nothing to do with Saddam boasting that he had weapons of mass destruction and defying a whole slew of United Nations resolutions to which he agreed after the liberation of Kuwait. It was all about oil.Yet the invasion of Georgia was justified because Russia was 'provoked'. So we can assume that Putin never gave a moment's thought to Georgia's pipeline to the West? What about the announcement last week by a Russian general that Poland was now a prime target for a nuclear strike because it had the audacity to agree to site a Nato defence shield within its borders?I must have missed the CND press release on that one.A new survey says that British attitudes towards the United States are governed by ignorance of the facts.For instance, most people here and in Europe believe America sold Saddam most of his arsenal. The truth is that just 0.46per cent of Iraq's weapons came from the U.S. Russia supplied 57 per cent, China 12 per cent and the cheese-eating surrender monkeys across the Channel were responsible for 13 per cent.The U.S. is routinely portrayed as anti-Islamic. But in 11 out of 12 of the most recent conflicts between Muslims and non-Muslims, America has sided with the Muslims.Other widespread myths such as Americans being denied medical care if they don't have health insurance are simply not true. Filthy, unregulated Russian and Chinese factories and power stations spew out poisonous gases, but America is branded the world's biggest polluter, even though it has done more to cut carbon emissions since the year 2000 than any other country.The 'liberal' media has a vested interest in perpetuating such lies. The Left seems to be gripped with some kind of political penis envy of America, which can be assuaged only by sucking up to tyrants and dictators.If we are entering a new Cold War, you can guarantee that the Left will once again be on the wrong side.There's nothing new in this. Forty years ago this summer, the big demonstrations in London were against America's war against communist North Vietnam, not the Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia.So no change there, then.

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