[kj] oliver / fox election spin

[B. Oliver Sheppard]

My understanding of socialism is this:

1. Government ownership of the means of production.

If a society has a democratic government, then the government control of 
the means of production means poular, democratic control of the means of 
production. If he society is totalitarian (like North Korea), the 
government ownership is very "centrally planed economy"-style and thus 
not democratic.

A democratic economy, where those who live n the country actually 
control it, and make it for them, instead of a privileged few at the 
top, has been the long standing goal of the progressive left as I 
understand it. You can also have a stateless society where the means of 
production and economy are run through workers' unions, community 
organizations, and other popular associations.

In the media and in common, casual parlance, the Eastern Bloc and 
countries like Cuba, China, etc., are called "communist," when 
technically they are not A lot of this is due to these countries' 
totalitaian governments cynically calling themselves "communist" because 
communism was a popular idea among the people, so, hey, call yourself a 
communist, get popular support, whether you were or are a communist or not.

North Korea also calls itself a Republic, like the US does. But does 
anyone believe they really are a republic? No. But do people really 
believe they are communist (when they are not)? Yes. Why? Ideological 
reasons, because communism must be associated with all that evil and 
wrong, and democracy al that is good. So even though the Union of Soviet 
Socialist REPUBLICS claimed just as much to be republican like the US, 
US ideologues simply ignored that word and focused laserlike on their 
claim to be socialist, preferring to associate that with 
totalitarianism. The Nazis also claimed to be socialist. It was a 
popular thing to claim to be, to get support, whether one was socialist 
or not.

-Oliver


GREG SLAWSON wrote:

> My party (progressive labor party) defines socialism as 2 types:

>