[kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

[ade]

No worries mate - I know you only want what's best - we'll agree to disagree ;)
 
Nah, I don't think humanity can *only* do nasty. I just think it needs to be factored-in is all. Instinctive behaviours are not chosen, they rise up from inside us. I don't choose to cry, fight/flight, etc.

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON
Sent: 18 March 2008 23:57
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right



I know there's also evidence of "primitive" cooperative societies where the food was shared and stuff. But I think the main weakness in your point (isn;t that what the BBC people call the news in the UK) is in comparing human behavior to the evolution of animals. Humans are the only animals that can significantly control their environments, b/c are brains are so friggin' evolved (esp. among Joke fans)! We are able to choose behaviors that go way beyond remnants of our evolution. In fact, we often  choose behaviors that are worse than those related to our animal roots--e.g., invading other countries. SO i think it's a mistake to say that we are programmed to be mean, when humans can display a huge range of behavior. The point is to develop a culture in which mutually cooperative behaviors are chosen (and I know you'll probably say that what's good for one person is bad for another, etc. but i think working for the collective good actually works best).


  _____  

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:50:00 +0000
From: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right


Cheers Greg.
 
OK, I've done the 'working together' point earlier this week - yep, we work together well when we're in the shit, but that is only transient. None of us is without prejudice, so disagreements & power struggles soon creep in.
 
As for the classes/hierarchy not existing, when was that? We have Iron Age graves here in the UK, wherein people of high rank were buried with lots of nice things - jewelry, posh swords, etc. Stonehenge? Religious elite. Peasants? Well, you won't find their graves as well marked - they wouldn't build a 20 foot mound for a nobody. Otherwise UK the UK would be far more hilly than it is, lol !
 
If we come from animals, surely we can see that control of the pack, leadership, a power hierarchy, power struggle etc, all exist in the animal world? 
 
I think the problem with your arguments is that they rely on people being NICE. Man, wouldn't that be great? It's not as I don't dream of the world you describe. Yet Nature & the animal kingdom is far from nice. It's something we're inextricably tied to. Check out those pointy teeth in your mouth.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON
Sent: 18 March 2008 22:23
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right


Case in point: Most of human history (before  classes existed) involved far more sharing and cooperation than nastiness and fucking people over. Other case in point: In situations where people have little time to think or even act on how they have been socialized, e.g. disaters, many people go as far as taking big risks to help others. So why not try to work for societies where this behavior is allowed to flourish (after a revolution, b/c capitalism makes too many reasons why it can't)... 



  _____  

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:30:18 +0000
From: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right



> As long as people can profit from fucking up other people, they will!

 
So, really this goes much further than corporates, crapitalism & all that, surely? If mankind is happy to fuck itself over, well, maybe all the nastiness that mankind metes out is going to hapooen one way or another, no matter what system is in place? Surely it's easier for everyone to just blame the 'bad man' instead of facing up to mankinds' ability to be very GOOD & very BAD?
 
Sadly, revolution just replaces one bunch of controllers with another.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of GREG SLAWSON
Sent: 18 March 2008 03:28
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right


Thanks for the compliment, Brendan. That was a good post. And what you're saying even goes beyond advertising. I've heard that 2 of the most profitable things in the world are prostitution and illegal drugs, which aren't even advertised...As long as people can profit from fucking up other people, they will! (Of course I don't have to add the tag about revolution--y'all know that already).
P.S> RIP Mikey Dread!


> From: bq at soundgardener.co.nz

> To: gathering at misera.net

> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:06:01 +1300

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

> 

> Yeah I hear you, but I just think that the negative social messages

> portrayed by corporates and the press (same thing) that I'm talking about

> are too intrusive, and the target audience is too vulnerable. 

> 

> Does it not bother you that you drive through the city and practically

> wherever you are, you can't avoid catching billboards featuring the most

> beautiful people they can find, surgically enhanced, gymmed up, fake tan,

> expensive clothes, expensive photoshoot, photoshopped...who can live up to

> that?! And the messages they portray, the smug aloof superior looks on their

> faces..."This shit is exclusive! Only top grade pussy wears Gucci...you

> could never interest anyone that sexy..." 

> 

> We're fucking devolving, maaaaaan.

> 

> And what is the alternative? Cities could be made to actually look

> beautiful, messages could be positive messages about US as opposed to US vs

> THEM (the beautiful people vs the masses...the rich vs the poor, the

> discerning vs the plain, the popular vs the losers, the SPECIAL vs the drab)

> 

> The statistics are overwhelming...the amount of ads on children's tv for

> nutritionless harmful super-sweet food vs healthy food that will actually

> benefit them in some way, the bullshit collaboration between the press and

> govt / corporate lobby groups, the OWNERSHIP of the press by corporates with

> no social responsibility, etc etc. It's all very well saying 'hey you can

> opt out at any time' but it's not that easy. (I just gave my telly away,

> that helped a lot). I've seen it intensify since I was a kid...back in the

> day when I was a kid the telly wanted to sell me sports equipment, lego and

> other toys that would actually enhance my learning, and yes, plastic pieces

> of shit at McDonalds and junk food, now kids are getting pressure to have a

> cellphone, dress like an adult way before they are out of childhood, behave

> like the vapid actors and actresses on the faux reality-tv programmes about

> spoiled LA brats...

> 

> NOTHING TO SAY!

> 

> (Olly where are you when I need you hippie, back me up here I've gone out on

> a limb and I'm starting to invent words to bloster my argument. Or Greg,

> you're completely wrong about Soundgarden but you're the leftist of the

> bunch, you're needed at the front! ;) 

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On

> Behalf Of ade

> Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2008 11:30 a.m.

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

> 

> Dude, if people want to be smug fucking thin-veneered shallow motherfuckers,

> what's new??!! Ooh, I've got a lifestyle, I've got a fancy car, etc, etc.

> That's THEM. Don't *just* blame consumerism - people like that would do it

> anyway... sometimes I think the lefty point of view just doesn't get that

> *many* people are vile !!!! Ooh, let's all cuddle-up & send bad vibes to

> the corporates - lol !!!

> 

> Don't you see that this is all about human communication? Constantly

> evolving. The pendulum swings both ways... as do you! ;)

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Brendan Quinn

> Sent: 17 March 2008 22:19

> To: 'A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)'

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

> Right

> 

> 

> A lot of us went dark at that Manic twat for trying to sell us his

> merchandise when this list was created for KJ fans to discuss KJ etc...so I

> suppose you could say Facebook conjures in some people a similar

> sentiment...although I agree the circumstances are a bit different. One of

> the author's main gripes is the cynical commodititisation,

> electronification, and distancification of basic human interaction, if you

> follow my invented words. The popularity contest with friends lists, that's

> the kind of stuff that REALLY gets on my goat, personally. I mean what,

> aren't all the bullshit messages on billboards, tv, magazines, movies etc

> enough to convince us that life is all about material wealth, populatiry,

> and physical beauty?! The message is so overwhelmingly

> prevalent...personally it disgusts me. Some areas seem to be chock full of

> people all with the perfect haircut, sunglasses, clothes, car etc, and they

> just radiate smug / superior. It's sickly. I could easily turn into one of

> those people if I wanted, but why? I'd quite honestly prefer hanging out

> with EMOs :)

> 

> Re. the sale of personal information to corporates (personal information

> such as bands you like, your location, age, gender, etc). I think he has a

> point, and I think it's relevant to discuss the motives of the creators of

> Facebook too. He may have gone a bit rabid on it...perhaps.

> 

> In terms of conspiracy 'theories'...a question: When a conspiracy theory

> becomes a conspiracy reality...do people take notice? Another question...how

> many people think that Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald? How

> many people with any basic understanding of physics, think that...?

> 

> As Bill Hicks said...Back and to the left...back and to the left...

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net] On

> Behalf Of ade

> Sent: Tuesday, 18 March 2008 10:16 a.m.

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American Right

> 

> Pat-ster,

> 

> I'm surprised you can't see just what a heap of sh!t that so-called

> article is. Wow - big money people invest in things that could be big.

> NOT ONCE have I had to divulge any information such as purchasing

> preferences, ID card details (what fucking ID card??? Is he writing

> from the future???), etc, to Facebook HQ whilst setting up or using

> my account. I find it useful to keep in touch with people from work.

> Neither have I had to divulge anything to Myspace - I have a load of

> Myspace pages for music projects. It's somewhere to upload mp3's!

> 

> And if you think I'm blind to it, a) I'm *proper* paranoid, lol &

> b) I'm a 'techie' - I don't just sign up for anything. I don't want

> the scum to know ANYTHING. In fact, I rarely register for *anything*

> on the web.

> 

> Now, did you post that turd? I bet they'll be x-raying the package.

> They're watching you... ;)

> 

> 

> ade.

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of iPat

> Sent: 17 March 2008 18:22

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

> Subject: Re: [kj] ot: We Want Everyone - Facebook & The New American

> Right

> 

> 

> A shame i wasted my useful time reading that email

> i wonder if i could pen a patronising bit of drivvel as well

> 

> Who knows, maybe e can get some prick to autograph it, though it might

> hide behind pseudonyms to give itself a false platform of

> intelligence.

> 

> ill call it

> 

> "a fart under the covers"

> 

> off now, feel a shit coming on. I ll send it somewhere.

> 

> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:23 PM, The Exorcist

> <killingjoke at theimmortalfool.com> wrote:

> >

> > A shame I wasted my useful time reading that crap.

> > I wonder if I ought to pen a long article about that as well!

> >

> > Who knows, maybe I can have Mr. Tom Hodgkinson autograph it. Though he'll

> > probably use a

> > false signature to avoid detection... Just in case.... Ya know?

> >

> > I'll call it

> >

> > "Angry male who sees conspiracies everywhere and despises successful

> people

> > who have

> > different political views than he does".

> >

> > Maybe I'll submit it to The Guaridan as well. I've heard that they like

> to

> > publish some really crappy articles.

> >

> >

> iPat

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