[kj] 1000 SUNS Outside Gate and PHANTASMAGORIA

[Alexander Smith]

"Skin Deep" may be comparatively slick pop, but synth pop it is not.

The Stranglers made a concerted effort to broaden their sound and  
appeal (in their own words, trying to become a "cooler Roxy Music").  
Whether they succeeded or not is another matter.

I personally like a lot of the band's pop stuff, but obviously it  
doesn't hold a candle to their earlier, more aggressive work.

Alex in NYC


On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:26 PM, GREG SLAWSON wrote:


>

>

> I'm not British and thus know little about the Stranglers, but I  

> seem to remember their early stuff being pretty good pub/punk rock,  

> and then hearing the new wave/synth pop of the song "Skin  

> Deep" (not bad by synth pop standards), and then getting a used  

> copy of another album (Aural Sculptures, maybe) and thinking it was  

> even more bland synth pop. I just don't get that one...

>

>

> From:  "peter muckle" <pmuckle00 at hotmail.com>

> Reply-To:  "A list about all things Killing Joke (the  

> band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

> To:  vassifer at earthlink.net

> CC:  gathering at misera.net

> Subject:  Re: [kj] 1000 SUNS Outside Gate and PHANTASMAGORIA

> Date:  Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:19:09 +0000

> >I have to agree with you, Outside the Gate was a drastic change.

> >Does anyone know of any similar band having such a drastic change  

> or will

> >this go down as a record breaking event.

> >

> >Pete

> >

> >

> > >From: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>

> > >Reply-To: Alex Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>,"A list about all  

> things

> > >Killing Joke (the band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

> > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > ><gathering at misera.net>, "A list about all things Killing Joke  

> (the band!)"

> > ><gathering at misera.net>

> > >Subject: Re: [kj] 1000 SUNS and PHANTASMAGORIA

> > >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:55:52 -0500 (EST)

> > >

> > >

> > >I don't remember being as crushed by hearing "Grimly Fiendish"  

> by the

> > >Damned as I was when I first heard "Adorations" by the `Joke,  

> but then -- I

> > >was always *way* more into the `Joke. Still not a fan of that  

> single. When

> > >the album came out, there were at least a few tracks with oomph  

> to them

> > >(notably "Chessboards" and "Rubicon") and its aged fairly well,  

> I'd say,

> > >but it's never been one of my favorites.

> > >

> > >That all said, *ABSOLUTELY NOTHING* can compare to the jaw-dropping

> > >disbelief and abject disapointment I felt when I first heard  

> "America" (to

> > >say nothing of the rest of the album that spawned it).

> > >

> > >Alex in NYC

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >-----Original Message-----

> > > >From: gingoblin at easynet.co.uk

> > > >Sent: Feb 22, 2007 4:36 PM

> > > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > ><gathering at misera.net>

> > > >Subject: Re: [kj] 1000 SUNS and PHANTASMAGORIA

> > > >

> > > >Indeed, and an era for both bands that I now look back on and  

> think "hmm,

> > > >not the best really, no matter how hard I tried to convince  

> myself

> > > >otherwise at the time"!  Actually, wasn't keen on 1000 Suns  

> when it came

> > > >out either (and no, let's not start that one again!)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >At 20:39 22/02/2007 +0000, you wrote:

> > > >>This was a new chapter for the damned, similar to the Killing  

> Joke era

> > >of

> > > >>1000 Suns.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> >From: "Jerry Butson" <jerry at fleamusic.com>

> > > >> >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the

> > > >> >band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

> > > >> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > > >> ><gathering at misera.net>

> > > >> >Subject: Re: [kj] OT: in Defense of PHANTASMAGORIA by the  

> Damned

> > > >> >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 12:50:52 +0000

> > > >> >

> > > >> >My vote for one of the Damned's finest vinyl moments goes  

> to he 12"

> > >version

> > > >> >of Alone Again Or in its breakneck speed, edited

> > > >> >on-the-fly-with-a-pair-of-rusty-scissors version...fantastic!

> > > >> >

> > > >> >On 22/02/07, gingoblin at easynet.co.uk  

> <gingoblin at easynet.co.uk> wrote:

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>Yeah, I do kinda enjoy Phantasmagoria the very few times I  

> play it

> > >these

> > > >> >>days, but after all these years I've realised for it to  

> REALLY be the

> > > >> >>Damned, it needs Vanian/Scabies/Sensible. They've had  

> their moments

> > >with

> > > >> >>the different line-ups, but nothing even comes close to  

> the amazing

> > >stuff

> > > >> >>of the earlier years.   I remember hearing a comp CD in  

> some pub...

> > >it was

> > > >> >>absolute genius right up to Grimly Fiendish coming on,  

> when I wished

> > >it

> > > >> >>would just end. Kinda summed it up for me.

> > > >> >>As for their "image"... as Scabies said, Vanian could  

> dress as a

> > >binman

> > > >> >>and

> > > >> >>still look good, while he himself could put on the finest  

> clothes and

> > > >> >>still

> > > >> >>be a mess!!

> > > >> >>Must admit, can't stand Eloise... though that's possibly  

> from it

> > >being the

> > > >> >>"hit" and having heard it way too often over the years.  

> The current

> > > >> >>line-up

> > > >> >>do the best version so far, but could still do without it!

> > > >> >>Oh, and the Five Foot One thing... I came out and directly  

> asked them

> > > >> >>around that time, and they didn't own up!  I recall asking  

> Rat if

> > >covering

> > > >> >>Five Foot One had anything to do with Vanian's height (to  

> which he

> > >replied

> > > >> >>"oh, I wouldn't say that to him"!!). Ah, my ever-tactful  

> youth!

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>Dave in Edinburgh

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >>At 09:15 21/02/2007 -0500, you wrote:

> > > >> >>

> > > >> >> >Just a few words in defense of PHANTASMAGORIA. I was  

> shocked as

> > >everyone

> > > >> >> >else at said album's comparatively gloppy  

> overproduction. Despite

> > >the

> > > >> >> >funereal trappings, it owed more to the likes of Meat  

> Loaf and

> > >Bonnie

> > > >> >> >Tyler than it did to any Goth making the `rounds at the  

> time (by

> > > >> >> >comparison, the Sisters of Mercy sound like the  

> Ramones). That

> > >said,

> > > >> >>there

> > > >> >> >were still some fine moments of pure pop on it (notably  

> "Street of

> > > >> >>Dreams"

> > > >> >> >and "Grimly Fiendish", although "Is It A Dream?" is just  

> crap

> > >across the

> > > >> >> >board). I'm also a big fan of the non-album single  

> "Eloise,"

> > >another

> > > >> >> >hoarily windswept and overproduced gem. Was in Punk? Not

> > >especially, but

> > > >> >> >who cares?

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >As a college freshman in 1985 out in the bowels of Ohio,  

> I remember

> > > >> >> >packing into a crowded station wagon to drive across scary,

> > > >> >>backwoods-ass

> > > >> >> >Midwestern pigfuck country to Kentucky to catch the  

> Damned on the

> > > >> >> >PHANTASMAGORIA tour (which, for some reason, bypassed  

> the nearest

> > >city

> > > >> >>to

> > > >> >> >our school, Columbus). As over-the-top as their image  

> and aesthetic

> > >had

> > > >> >> >become (Hammer horror films, candelabras, graveyard  

> shtick), they

> > >were

> > > >> >>as

> > > >> >> >full-on live as can be imagined (and yes -- quite  

> definably PUNK in

> > > >> >>every

> > > >> >> >semblance of the term).

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >I've grown to quite like the PHANTASMAGORIA album as a  

> result.

> > >There are

> > > >> >> >some great moments on ANYTHING as well (notably their  

> cover of

> > >"Alone

> > > >> >> >Again Or" and the title track, which is essentialy a

> > >wafer-thin-re-write

> > > >> >> >of Iggy Pops "Five Foot One"). I saw them again with  

> Brian James et

> > >al.

> > > >> >>on

> > > >> >> >the tour that resulted in the FINAL DAMNATION tour (`90  

> or so?) at

> > >the

> > > >> >>New

> > > >> >> >Ritz, and they were endearingly shambollic. The last  

> time I saw

> > >them was

> > > >> >> >in the mid-90's at since-shuttered Coney Island High. I  

> don't

> > >believe

> > > >> >>Rat

> > > >> >> >was in attendance, but Dave was there in all his  

> ridiculous glory.

> > >It

> > > >> >>was

> > > >> >> >fun to see them, but it wasn't really "the Damned" as  

> I'd grown to

> > >love.

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >I haven't picked up a new album/single of theirs since I  

> can't

> > >remember

> > > >> >> >when, honestly. But I listened to a clutch of Damned  

> tracks on my

> > >walk

> > > >> >>to

> > > >> >> >work this morning, and the mere fact that their catalog  

> stretches

> > >from

> > > >> >>the

> > > >> >> >stripped-down velocity of "Fish" and "Neat Neat Neat"  

> through to

> > >the

> > > >> >> >ersatz psychedelia of the Naz Nomad stuff and onto their

> > >vanglorious

> > > >> >> >opuses (opi?) like the afore-mentioned "Eloise" is a  

> testament to

> > >their

> > > >> >> >versatility.

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >Bless'em.

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >Alex in NYC

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >

> > > >> >> >-----Original Message-----

> > > >> >> > >From: Mike Porthouse <Mike at rteltd.com>

> > > >> >> > >Sent: Feb 21, 2007 4:02 AM

> > > >> >> > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > > >> >> > <gathering at misera.net>

> > > >> >> > >Subject: Re: [kj] Clip of US punk documentary/riots

> > > >> >> > >

> > > >> >> > >Had the pleasure of seeing the current Damned line-up  

> a couple of

> > > >> >>times

> > > >> >> > last

> > > >> >> > >year (Vanian, Sensible, Stu, Pinch and Monty) and I  

> have to say

> > > >> >>they're

> > > >> >>in

> > > >> >> > >good form. Best I've seen them since the re-union  

> shows in about

> > >88 or

> > > >> >>89.

> > > >> >> > >Vanian and Sensible have a massive stage presence and  

> they're now

> > > >> >>playing

> > > >> >> > >with good musicians. Always a good night out. Some  

> good new songs

> > >and

> > > >> >>a

> > > >> >> > back

> > > >> >> > >catalogue of classics. The only thing for me, which  

> keeps them

> > >from

> > > >> >>being

> > > >> >> > >right up there with the best is their lyrics, which  

> have never

> > >been

> > > >> >> > anything

> > > >> >> > >to get excited about.

> > > >> >> > >BTW the recent MGE DVD release is very good for any  

> Damned fans

> > >who

> > > >> >>don't

> > > >> >> > >already own it.

> > > >> >> > >

> > > >> >> > >Mike Porthouse

> > > >> >> > >

> > > >> >> > >----- Original Message -----

> > > >> >> > >From: <gingoblin at easynet.co.uk>

> > > >> >> > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

> > > >> >> > ><gathering at misera.net>

> > > >> >> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:32 PM

> > > >> >> > >Subject: Re: [kj] Clip of US punk documentary/riots

> > > >> >> > >

> > > >> >> > >

> > > >> >> > >> This was last July, and yes it WAS interesting to  

> say the

> > > >> >>least!  Fucking

> > > >> >> > >> great, even if Casey Chaos's voice was shot.

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >> >> > >> They came VERY close to doing it with Dave and Cap,  

> but that's

> > > >> >>another

> > > >> >> > >> story.  It is a shame though... 30 years comes round  

> once.

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >> >> > >> There was talk of doing a few more dates, but  

> nothing more than

> > > >> >>that.

> > > >> >>You

> > > >> >> > >> never know though!

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >> >> > >> A couple of pics from the gig :

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/GinGoblin/ 

> 100ClubJuly6th20068.jpg

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/GinGoblin/ 

> 100ClubJuly6th20067.jpg

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >> >> > >> Dave

> > > >> >> > >>

> > > >> >> > >> At 13:34 20/02/2007 -0500, you wrote:

> > > >> >> > >>>So the Brian James Gang thing made me curious  

> again.  Don't own

> > >the

> > > >> >> > >>>release

> > > >> >> > >>>but it sounds promising even the simplistic, idiotic  

> lyrics.

> > >Vocals

> > > >> >>are

> > > >> >> > >>>fine.  So I stumble across their (always dreaded)  

> myspace page:

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >>http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm? 

> fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friend

> > > >> >> > id=106508478

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >> >> > >>>and what do I see...

> > > >> >> > >>>DAMNED 30th ANNIVERSARY LINE-UP:

> > > >> >> > >>>Brian James-Guitar,

> > > >> >> > >>>Rat Scabies-Drums

> > > >> >> > >>>Mani-Bass

> > > >> >> > >>>Casey Chaos-Voice

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >> >> > >>>This could be interesting.  Shame they couldn't do  

> it with

> > >Captain

> > > >> >>and Rat

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >> >> > >>>Anyone have anymore details???  IS there a snowballs  

> chance in

> > >hell

> > > >> >>thisis

> > > >> >> > >>>coming to the US?  I would actually go see this

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >> >> > >>>Chris

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >> >> > >>> >From: "TB" <Partyslammer at socal.rr.com>

> > > >> >> > >>> >Reply-To: TB <Partyslammer at socal.rr.com>,"A list  

> about all

> > >things

> > > >> >> > >>> >Killing

> > > >> >> > >>> >Joke (the band!)"<gathering at misera.net>

> > > >> >> > >>> >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the  

> band!)"

> > > >> >> > >>> ><gathering at misera.net>

> > > >> >> > >>> >Subject: Re: [kj] Clip of US punk documentary/riots

> > > >> >> > >>> >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:10:33 -0800

> > > >> >> > >>> >

> > > >> >> > >>> >"Rob's Arse" wrote:

> > > >> >> > >>> >

> > > >> >> > >>> > >

> > > >> >> > >>> > > Grave disorder really was a return to form but  

> Not of this

> > > >> >>Earth

> > > >> >>was

> > > >> >> > >>> > > terrible!

> > > >> >> > >>> > >

> > > >> >> > >>> > > I remember seeing them at the time with Scabies  

> on drums,

> > > >> >>Vanian

> > > >> >>on

> > > >> >> > >>> > > Vocals, Moose from NMA on bass with Kris  

> Dollimore (Mr

> > >Session

> > > >> >> > >>> > > guitar)

> > > >> >> > >>> >and

> > > >> >> > >>> > > Vanian's Grandad (wearing a LEATHER WASTECOAT).

> > > >> >> > >>> > > I left that gig totally heartbroken. They were  

> shitter

> > >than

> > > >> >>shit.

> > > >> >> > >>> > >

> > > >> >> > >>> > > As an aside, we played wit teh Brian James Gang  

> the other

> > >week

> > > >> >>and I

> > > >> >> > >>> >have

> > > >> >> > >>> > > to say that Brian James is a lovely bloke.  

> Shame there

> > >were

> > > >> >>only

> > > >> >>25

> > > >> >> > >>> >people

> > > >> >> > >>> > > at the gig!

> > > >> >> > >>> >

> > > >> >> > >>> >Did Brian have Dave Tregunna with him on bass? Any  

> Lords

> > >tunes

> > > >> >>played?

> > > >> >> > >>> >More

> > > >> >> > >>> >details, man!

> > > >> >> > >>> >

> > > >> >> > >>> >T.B.

> > > >> >> > >>> >

> > > >> >> > >>> >

> > > >> >> > >>> >_______________________________________________

> > > >> >> > >>> >Gathering mailing list

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> > > >> >> >

> > >  

> >>>_________________________________________________________________

> > > >> >> > >>>The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see  

> yours: $0

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> > > >> >>Experian.

> > > >> >> > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >>http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx? 

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> > > >> >> > >>>

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> > > >> >>2/19/2007

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