[kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

[jo]

Oooh yes it is!





> No it's not!

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: jo <jo at arcadia.karoo.co.uk>

> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!) 

> <gathering at misera.net>

> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:46:07 AM

> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>

>

> A debate is an argument.

>

>

>

>>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>>

>> I thought it more a debate !  Oh well, now I know better.

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: gathering-bounces at misera.net

>> [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]On Behalf Of Rob's Arse

>> Sent: 18 December 2007 14:13

>> To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)

>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>>

>>

>>

>> This is a no win argument isn't it?

>> My personal reaction would be entirely different I am sure.

>>

>> But if justice has not been done, then it is the judical system that

> is

>> wrong. Not the offenders.

>> What these boys did was hideous but each one of us should ask Are we

> the

>> same person we were when we were 10 years old?

>>

>> I know I am not. I know I have learnt a great deal and am thankful to

> my

>> parents, family amd community for making me who I am.

>>

>> If we do not forgive and accept wrong doing and the changes in

> people,

>> then how can we expect society to move on?

>>

>> An example of forgiveness - Nelson Mandella.

>> Convicted terrorist who instigated the use of violence in South

> Africa.

>>

>> Now I'm not comparing them for their crimes but using this as an

> example

>> of forgiveness, change and understanding.

>>

>> People change. These boys committed a crime, were given a sentence

> and

>> served it.

>> If that is not acceptable, let's change the system so that it does

> not

>> happen again.

>>

>>

>>

>> www.iamscuzzy.com www.myspace.com/scuzzywear

>>

>> --- pmdavies at gmail.com wrote:

>>

>> From: iPat <pmdavies at gmail.com>

>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"

>> <gathering at misera.net>

>> Subject: Re: [kj] FW: Please sign the petition - it's too late

>> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:12:23 +0000

>>

>> i can agree with you, but you are missing my point.

>>

>> its not about mr and mrs bulger dealing with their grief or wanting

>> punishment is it. Its the people who attatch themselves to that and

>> demand these things.

>>

>> Ade, i simply said why i wouldnt sign the petition, if you cant

> handle

>> that then thats your issue but doesnt mean i should not be part of

> the

>> debate.

>>

>> idealistic? who knows, but as you know im trained in various forms of

>> fighting from bare hands to weapons. If anyone attcks me or my

> familly

>> i will use those skills to serve the purpose. Thats personal

>> responsibility. I dont surrender my destiny to the state or others.

>> Nor though will i wallow in someone elses grief like people crowding

>> round a road crash.

>>

>> the concept of Justice is a based on what? the law? The morality of

>> Judea-Chritianity? im quite happy that these two will be monitored,

>> its not right what they did, but if there is no redemption you may as

>> well hand over the keys to the fascists who say they can identify in

>> primary school who is going to be the bad ones. Lock them up in

>> Guantamano Bay stylee and use the Bulger case as the justification

> and

>> those of the poulation drip fed on tv shows will feel that they

> really

>> are alive.

>>

>> You feed my son heroin and he dies then be aware ill knock on your

>> door someday. Doesnt mean i want some jackbooted devient to do it on

>> my behalf just to satisfy their impotence.

>>

>> On Dec 18, 2007 12:24 PM, ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

>>> I disagree with yours & iPat's comments because they seem to factor

> out

>>> the original victim(s) completely.

>>>

>>> Why on earth wouldn't a mother kill to protect her young? If you

> can't

>>> grasp that, then it might be worth staying out of the debate.

>>>

>>> These replies seem very 'cold'. We'll never get rid of murder, so

> don't

>>> you think you're both being a little idealistic?

>>>

>>> iPat - idiots will always use something like this as an excuse to

>>> play-up. I'm not for vigilante's or chavs roaming the streets

> setting

>>> fire to paediatricians houses because they can't spell paedo!

>>>

>>> The reality is that there's a big emotional element to this, which

> needs

>>> to be factored in - you have to have a grasp of how the victims'

> families

>>> are affected (lives destroyed). Do they not count? If they don't,

> then

>>> NOBODY gets justice.

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