[kj] Jaz Straw

Sat Oct 14 10:36:51 EDT 2006

The Bible is a load of bollocks - HA - I can say that, but 600 years or
less ago I could have been executed for blasphemy in this country for
saying that!

All this dress modestly stuff is common to a lot of religions; and what
are religions but expressions of the culture that invented them. As far
as I'm concerned, a religion says more about the prevailing culture than
it does about any god who may or may not exist. I haven't read the Koran
but I have read lots of bits of the Bible when I was 'searching'. On the
whole I found it to be a load of bigoted codswallop. However, I
eventually came to the conclusion that you could use it to support any
thing you like from freelove to genocide if you looked hard enough.

The Bible also tells women to dress modestly and Paul(in the bible)says
that women should cover their heads -

I quote Corinthians:

But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a
husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ. Any man who
prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. 

But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings
shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had
her head shaved. 

For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her
hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off
or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. 

A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the
image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. 

For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 

nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; 

for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head,
because of the angels. 

WHAT A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS ,EH? And I don't see many Christian women
insisting on their right to this load of clap trap! - although you
sometimes see those women who wear a token triangle of fabric over their
head as a token.

Juliet

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
On Behalf Of Robert Mallett
Sent: 12 October 2006 09:52
To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
Subject: Re: [kj] Jaz Straw

It doesnt say anything in the Koran about covering Females faces . The
closest it comes is saying that "Females should dress modestly" . A
Micro
Bikini is one end of extreme dressing and a arabya.Hijab is at the other
end
of extreme dressing. Modest would be somewhere in the middle

read the Qu'ran then have you?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "flight Bringer" <flightbringer at hotmail.co.uk>
To: <gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw

> It doesnt say anything in the Koran about covering Females faces . The

> closest it comes is saying that "Females should dress modestly" . A
Micro 
> Bikini is one end of extreme dressing and a arabya.Hijab is at the
other 
> end of extreme dressing. Modest would be somewhere in the middle
>
>
>>From: "ade" <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk>
>>Reply-To: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk,"A list about all things Killing
Joke 
>>(the band!)"<gathering at misera.net>
>>To: "'culturevirus'" <culturevirus at yahoo.com>,"'A list about all
things 
>>Killing Joke (the band!)'"<gathering at misera.net>
>>Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
>>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 23:21:12 +0100
>>
>>Oh no, I'm not generalising that it's 'keeping wimmin down' in all
cases.
>>Obviously not. But to ignore
>>that reality is wrong too. I'm against the cooontish use of these
things,
>>primarily.
>>
>>The thing is.. Mohammeds' words on the matter are still open to 
>>discussion,
>>so like the Bible Belt
>>view on fags & abortions, the words are reinterpreted time & again,
just
>>like/as political arguments.
>>And like the Bible Belt, those arguments can be turned on all sorts of
>>people who're frowned upon.
>>Like women with rights!
>>
>>
>>ade
>>
>>   -----Original Message-----
>>   From: culturevirus [mailto:culturevirus at yahoo.com]
>>   Sent: 11 October 2006 02:17
>>   To: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk; A list about all things Killing Joke
(the
>>band!)
>>   Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
>>
>>
>>   coming out of lurkdom again... being a US based person, the
politics of
>>Britain are mostly unknown to me, but we have roughly the same set of
>>circumstances in the US. I have yet to hear/read of any of our
politicians
>>speaking on the subject in such a level-headed manner as Mr. Straw.
Our
>>politicians tend to speak in small words and short sentences so as to
>>discourage deep thought on issues and therefore maintain knee-jerk
voting
>>based on political hatred for "the other party".
>>
>>   Ade's comment (echoed by a few others) reflects the way a lot of us
>>Westerners view the hijab: as a way to keep women down or force women
to
>>shoulder the burden of policing the male sexual drive. I know part of
me
>>feels that way as well. But as Straw pointed out early in his column,
many
>>women do choose to wear head coverings of some type. If you ask these 
>>women
>>many of them will respond that like school uniforms it keeps them
equal 
>>with
>>their peers and reduces the distraction of clothing differences and 
>>focuses
>>peoples attentions on the wearer and not the clothes. Such clothing
can 
>>make
>>women feel empowered as they no longer face distracted men who are
(even
>>subconciously) checking out their physical features and are forced to
deal
>>with the woman as a social equal.
>>
>>   I recently read a book on the history of The Habit (Catholic nun
garb) 
>> and
>>many nuns feel the same way. Within the communities of these women
there 
>>is
>>disagreement over whether such attire has an overall positive or
negative
>>affect on their place in society. Nearly all agree however, that it
sets
>>them apart from other women and puts them in a frame of reference that
is
>>unique among their sex.
>>
>>   In a perfect world women will choose to wear such attire for what
they
>>feel it does for them as a person and not what their sub-culture
expects 
>>of
>>them.
>>
>>   I am culturevirus
>>
>>   ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>     I dunno. I just think it's odd to defend a way of keeping women
down.
>>Nevertheless, I'll defend the right
>>     to wear the things!
>>       -----Original Message-----
>>       From: Jim Harper [mailto:jimharper666 at yahoo.co.uk]
>>       Sent: 10 October 2006 21:32
>>       To: ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk; A list about all things Killing
Joke
>>(the band!)
>>       Subject: RE: [kj] Jaz Straw
>>
>>
>>       So I take I'm missing the real issue then?
>>
>>       ade <ade at the-lab.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>         Look, I'll make my point again - imagine the subject has no 
>> colour,
>>so we're not talking about race
>>         now. That seems to be the subtext on BOTH sides in many
cases. 
>> Now
>>imagine a subject female
>>         being told she has to cover up *her* 'adornments'. Sort've
puts 
>> the
>>blame at her door doesn't it.
>>
>>         It's like as if the 'institutionalised treatment of women as 
>> cattle'
>>is shorted out by the 'race' aspect.
>>
>>         A lefty nightmare.
>>
>>
>>         ade.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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