[kj] Ill Logic PontifiPation

[Darth E. Vader]

I was just a little too busy with living life to
refute these rather blinkered pontifications until
now, so be kind, rewind!
 
>Well there are people who feel so disenfranchised
with society that they dont really care about humanity
other than for their own selfish reasoning. Now part
of this discussion is because you yourself have
clearly indicated that you care little for human
suffering 

iPat's logic breaks down instantly, as he's infering a
generalised statement I never made from me stating
that I didn't care about the tube bombings.

Explain how you extrapolated from that the statement
that I don't care about human suffering.

Why do I try to avoid buying products made in
sweatshops?

Why did I donate money to help Jester pay for cancer
treatment?

Why did I donate money to help the people injured by
the Pakistan earthquake?

>(dont know the reason for feeling the need to defend
Jaz though as that sort of defies the logic of the
previous stance). 

What has logic got to do with it? 
Please explain.

Whatever happened to
"The Fall of Because"?

>Ultimately it doesnt really mean much to me what you
do as its insignificant other than being somewhat
abusive on a sharepoint. 

So why are you wasting everyone's time by even
bothering to comment then? Too much time wasted online
perhaps?

Ultimately I don't care. I also don't care about your
spiritual hocum. Please explain what you mean by the
phrase "abusive on a sharepoint."

>But while you wallow in the reaction to your clacking
of the keyboards make sure that you are no different
to the attention seeking antics of Peter West. 

The attention has sure come to me, 
I'm not wallowing in it, I rather think you might be
though. I'm laughing!

Pontif-iPat couldn't possibly be attention seeking
with all his philosophy and spirituality quotes?
Looka me! 
Looka me!
I'm so well read and enlightened!

>The two of you are the same with a different mask.
peters just more honest about it. 
 
Similar in some ways but very different in many more -
once again Mr Logic is generalising grossly in his
pontifications.

It is probably true that West & I like Killing Joke,
are subscribed to The Gathering email list and don't
much give a damn what anyone else thinks of us. We're
also both not taking all this as seriously as some of
you.

Pontif-iPat often seems almost as foolish as West,
West is just more honest about it.

>What can be done? With you probably little as you are
too caught up in your ego to see from outside. 

How can you know that unless you're in my brain?

How far outside are you seeing from iPat? Neptune?
Jupiter? The comment below about work as the basis of
survival suggests to me that you're then one having
problems seeing things from outside.

Are you really that arrogant that you think you can do
something with me? Maybe you should mind your own
business and stop worrying about me as I'm doing OK.
Get a life, OK?

>The hedonistic lifestyle you boast about, piggybacked
on middle class privilege, 

Its funny that you see the middle class as a
privilege. I see it more as a transitory state in a
society destined to doom and destruction. Anyway, by
any economic criteria I'm not middle class.

>means that you look down on people who simply work to
support their families, the basic essence of human
survival. 

Don't tell me what I look down on you pompous
patronising person. The kind of meaningless work some
people do would soon make me suicidal... Lucky for me
I live in a society which isn't yet oppressed enough
for that to happen! Although our opulent lifestyles
sure are oppressing a lot of folk in foreign lands.

Maybe I am just having too much fun?
Nice work if you can get it!

Looks like iPat has been suckered by the work ethic
con.

Working in itself is not the basic essence of human
survival. Hunting, gathering and farming might be seen
as work and are quite useful for survival. A lot of
work is completely irrelevant to survival, eg. call
centres, lawyers, banking, politicians.

Whatever happened to
"Money is Not Our God"?

The basic essence of human survival is more like
eating, playing and fucking.

Conflict and its resolution also plays a more
important part in survival than working.

Surely illumination is more important for survival and
consequent evolution than mere work?

Read Bob Black's pamphlet "The Abolition of Work" for
a very different point of view to that which iPat
expounds.
(50p from Active Distribution, BM Active, London WC1N
3XX).

Another interesting book you could read is "Evasion"
published by 
www.crimethinc.com

Your nervous system
I don't like it!

>You support it by a fantasy of hero worship from the 

I don't have heros, but I can respect some people.

If it was a fantasy of hero worship, then it wouldn't
really be hero worship would it?

>- alleged - 'lookalike' Jaz leather coat to a fetish
about Jaz that mimics the delusion of a crazed stalker


That's funny!
If I was a crazed stalker of Jaz I'd make much more
effort to actually meet him. Its true I go to Killing
Joke gigs though. Yes I have two leather jackets but
neither lookalike da one Jaz wears.

>Now you are so 'on the edge' 

Maybe 'Over the Edge'?

>to promote gigs in someones living room 

Some of us get out a bit more and check our email in
public places, ie. cafes, social centres, libraries.

There are quite a lot of non-profit gigs happening in
people's living rooms round manchester these past few
years, if that's what you meant.

>but really you simply suck on others egos to feed
your ego and greed 

Listen ye to the great wise guru iPat!
He knows all about reality, for iPat is reality! 

Futte mein ego!
Futte mein ego!
Ego! Ego! Ego!

Please explain how you think I'm being greedy.
In comparison to what?

>with the subsequent audacity when people look at you
and shout "Look! The emperor has no clothes!" 

Godspeed You Black Emperor!
All the way to 
An Irrational Domain
      (balls out of play J. Harper)

Maybe iPat should reread the story about the Emperor's
new clothes, because I don't think its moral really
applies at all to what he's pontificating about.
Hopefully this is not the early onset of senility!

>you cant hear them because the noise you are making
about yourself is drowning out the cries. 

Damn iPat, you don't talk to yourself at the computer
do you? Better watch out for that dementia!

Poor old Ade wasn't so self-pitying he actually cried
was he?

I can't hear them but I have been reading them and
reacting to some of their statements and slander,
which I guess is the reason you think I'm attention
seeking? 
 
I know Jane seemed a bit upset, and she is a
fundamentally decent person who I didn't mean to
offend, but at least she hasn't allowed herself to
sink to the pitiful level Leigh, the ever dull Ade and
Alex have just because they can't accept that I don't
share their morals. They also seem to be a bit
confused about sexuality, but that's their problem. I
just reacted in kind and gave as bad as I got, but it
got quite boring didn't it?

I understand the reasons that Alex kicked off and
would like it to be water under the bridge. I like the
guy and feel sorry that my crass, if truthful,
statement offended him. The name calling was quite
funny. I think we have risen above it as he suggested,
at least I've stopped. Alex has made his point,
repeatedly.

I think Ade is a self-pitying sell out who makes
pathetic excuses for changing his ideals. Fair enough
if he thinks Alex didn't deserve my caustic message
about moving to New Orleans. It wasn't actually a
serious suggestion, and I think if anyone thought it
was they're probably a bit dim. It really isn't my
business how Ade lives his life, but he seems to want
it to be, and he was whining on and making up lies
about me. The fact that he seems to blame his children
for making him do things he doesn't like is the really
pathetic aspect. Does he really believe they'd starve
if he stopped shopping at Asda? What an idiotic
blowhard!

>Now with these questions you attempt to conceal
yourself as an intellectual 

I'm not an intellectual.
How would I be concealing myself if I was?

Do you actually know what an intellectual is?

>when in fact you are blind to the fact that these
questions are about you. 

Which questions?

THE FALL OF BECAUSE

Care to repeat them?

THE FALL OF BECAUSE

I would've thought everyone would be getting a bit
bored of me by now, but some of you are right
obsessive nosy parkers!

I guess I just haven't had time to reply to every
single damn email from every single nosy parker out
there yet!

THE FALL OF BECAUSE

>You joined a community and they seem to be rejecting
you again Graeme - it cant always be everyone elses
fault all of the time. 

I count about four people being childishly abusive,
and a couple more lecturing calmly in bleeding heart
morality and whatnot. Hardly a rejection by an entire
community. There are conflicts and disagreements in
all communities, despite the best efforts of
iGrasshopper!

Slowly slowly out it came 
Tendencies that weren't the same

So is iPat really that pompous that he thinks he can
speak for everyone subscribed to The Gathering? 

I don't see this in terms of fault, just differing
reactions to events.

Laughter and argue!

I've always been quite content to move beyond
consensus reality. If iPat sees that as a problem then
it's his problem.  

>The answers are simple, it comes from within. 

The answers to what?

The metaphysical answers iPat himself is pondering as
he peers deep into his illuminated psyche, or
practical ways about how to bring change to the world?

>All the different faiths have that common thread that
people overlook. 

Yes, even Faith Brown knew it!
And let us not forget "The Faith Healer" by the
Sensational Alex Harvey Band!

>The answer is within and until you stop running from
it then you will never have that peace. 

Not much good having the answer within if Uncle Sam's
troops are ass raping your grandpa for porn to flog to
Bizarre magazine? 

Will the answer within save us from the catastrophic
consequences of global warming, iPat?

Why do you assume I want peace?
Noise! Noise! Noise!
You're now projecting your values onto me, aren't you?

This is it!
This is mystical shit!

>how can you sort out the world if you cant sort out
yourself? 

I'm quite well sorted right now.
Want any E's?
WHITEOUT!

Quote a few books you've read and everything will be
OK!
Keep chomping Big Mucs as you read the holy texts!

>how can there be peace in the world if you have no
peace of mind? 

The nature of nature is rarely peaceful.
Maybe you should just ask...
"How can there be peace in the world?"

Evolution is fueled by conflict.

>How can you love if you hate yourself? 

I don't hate myself, but I think I'm beginning to find
iPat's pompous lectures rather egotistical.

Look within, pontif-iPat and you shall find your
pieces.

Where's the god damn chessboard?

Don't lecture me about inner peace whilst you're
angrily telling iGrasshopper to fuck off. A bit
egotisitical wasn't it? Maybe you should reread your
own little lecture in humility that you graced us all
with.

Funny how the iGrasshoper routine was the first time
West made me laugh. I also can't quite work out if
iPat is serious in his attempts to blunder oafishly
into trying to be some kinda spiritual guru, or if
he's taking the piss, but if its a joke its quite a
good one and I'll run with it for a laugh!

Ever read the bible story about the mote in the eye,
iPat? 

Foetus once sang,
"Judge not lest ye be judged thyself"

I think it also says that in the bible, since we're
spouting off on religious hocus pocus. 

Also its quite ironic that Pat prefaces himself with
the letter "i" as ego is supposedly in the "I."

Whatever happened to
"Wilful Days" ??????

********************

Please send me evenings and weekends

888888888888888888888888888888888888


Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine
http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine

Look at grafitti scrawled on the wall:
Dubya can't catch family friend Bin Liner...
But what the HELL?
They talk to God!


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com