[kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate

Tue Jan 18 16:43:58 EST 2005

refuring to ..goths..alot of people say that siouxsie n the banshees,jiontly 
with bauhause,started the
..goth cult..,pete murphy-bauhause revels in the fact that he appears to be 
the king of the goths//
yet siouxsie sioux repels at the thought of being associated with the goth 
scene=n as for being the queen of the ..goths..as she has been labled on 
sereral occassions..she has denied that fact....i can see why the media,plus 
others lump both banshees/bauhause,at the top of that particular 
cult....liking both  these bands music myself,i think they were both very 
original innovators of a new way in music style,partly a style which the 
media had to lable something,so they called it ..goth..,n partly a type of 
music that could easly fit into many horror themes,type of movie scores//n 
larstly,
i have no name for it..it was just the banshees//bauhause,distinctive type 
of sound,that no one else had really come up with...well maybe early velvet 
underground..but the velvets only scratched the surface...where as 
banshees//bauhause,took the deep-end..........mel

>From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 
><gathering at misera.net>
>To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)" 
><gathering at misera.net>
>Subject: Re: [kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:59:44 -0500
>
>
>I'm not *ARGUING* with you, Antoni, this is just a discussion, but if you 
>want to put the lid on it, that's fine too.
>
>Alex in NYC
>
>
>On Tuesday, January 18, 2005, at 09:54 AM, <antoni at clara.net> wrote:
>
>>Alex, I don't disgaree with you at all ... as I said, I thought it was all 
>>post punk ... but I'm just reporting what I saw ... there's always been a 
>>suggestion that UK Decay's singer Abbo first used the term "goth" in an 
>>interview and therefore we have him to blame ... that NME publication also 
>>features heavily The Birthday Party but then again the Boys Next Door were 
>>an Aussie "new wave" who came over to the UK and then allegedly struggled 
>>with the climate & the poverty - their dishelleved drunken & drug crazed 
>>state was as much to do with that as anything else (according to the "Bad 
>>Seed" biography of Nick Cave) and they would sneak back to Oz to escape 
>>the harsh UK winter - again could you really call Mick Harvey, Phil 
>>Calvert, Tracey Pew goths ? Not at all. I dunno Alex. I've opened a can of 
>>worms here. It was just nice to read something about that 80-81 period 
>>that I identified with. I think we'll put this one to bed, yes ? Thanks.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Alexander Smith
>>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:04 PM
>>Subject: Re: [kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate
>>
>>Surely, but Post-Punk doesn't necessarily equal "Goth". Public Image Ltd., 
>>Gang of Four, the Pop Group -- these bands were also all considered 
>>Post-Punk, but I think one would be very hard pressed to make the argument 
>>that they were Goths in any way.
>>
>>Of course there are elements to Killing Joke's music that go hand-in-hand 
>>with the Goth aesthetic (in much the same way there are elements of 
>>Killing Joke's music that have ties to Punk Rock, Heavy Metal, Funk, Disco 
>>and even Dub) yet the band handily transcends all of those other 
>>categorizations.
>>
>>Alex in NYC
>>
>>
>>
>>On Monday, January 17, 2005, at 06:58 PM, <antoni at clara.net> wrote:
>>
>>... but to be fair Alex, you've always said that you picked up on KJ with 
>>Eighties so that was 1984 ... around 1980-81 there was an army of fanatics 
>>into these bands ... the term "goth" had not really been coined by then 
>>... the likes of Siouxsie And The Banshees and The Cure were still seen as 
>>punk or new wave ... neither were Theatre Of Hate a "goth" band, rather a 
>>punky, sax driven sound with spaghetti-western themes ... but a large 
>>number of punters were into all 4 bands ... post-punk was what we (or at 
>>least I) called it ... and the fact was that Killing Joke was part of that 
>>"scene" ... a scene with no name, even before the The Face magazine 
>>decided to refer to the Blitz club scene with a similar moniker ... as the 
>>New Romantics horrors approached ...
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Alexander Smith
>>To: A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)
>>Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:37 PM
>>Subject: Re: [kj] UK Decay & the great "goth" debate
>>
>>
>>Always been curious to hear UK Decay after reading the embarrassingly 
>>titled book, "The Dark Reign of Gothic Rock" (which, to its credit, does 
>>*NOT* lump Killing Joke in with said scene). Killing Joke are *NOT* Goths, 
>>dammit. I'm not knocking the Goths --- I'm a huge fan of lots of that 
>>stuff, but facts be facts.
>>
>>Alex in NYC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Monday, January 17, 2005, at 05:01 PM, <antoni at clara.net> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>One of the interesting articles in the newsletter is by a guy called Paul 
>>Rab John who discusses the recent "NME Originals : Goth" publication for 
>>it's concentration on big label acts (Banshees, Cult, Bauhaus, Cure) and 
>>it's basic rewriting of history, NME style. Hardly surprising really as 
>>the NME used to devote serious columns inches to the likes of Blue Rondo a 
>>La Turk rather than report on the post punk bands who were filling out the 
>>venues & being covered spiritedly by the enormous network of fanzines. 
>>Back to 1980/1981 and PRJ refers to the big "4", who were an alternative 
>>to pop/punk, New Romantic or horrible sub-Sham pop music. They were (and 
>>he puts them in order of importance) : Killing  Joke, Bauhaus, Theatre Of 
>>Hate, UK Decay.
>> 
>>Let's face it - there was a legion of young spiky haired guys walking 
>>around with these names (often all of them) painted on their leather 
>>jackets. PRJ goes on to rightly suggest that those bands spawned a further 
>>wave (Southern Death Cult, Sex Gang Children, Sisters Of Mercy, March 
>>Violets etc) and by the time that the NME admitted/accepted there was a 
>>scene going on, they grasped new bands Brigandage and Blood And Roses, 
>>stuck them on the cover, called the movement "Positive Punk" and everybody 
>>cringed with embarrassment & the whole thing became a laughing stock.
>> 
>>
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