[kj] the 'Holy' Land

[Pat Tofield]

Well....

......as someone who has lived in Israel for the past 15 years.... I can
say that you are both (Mark and xxxxxxxxxx) speaking truth and total
bollox in equal proportions, and at the same time - which is partially
the problem of the 'West' ever trying to understand this region....or in
fact 'anyone' ever trying to understand this region.....


1) Settlers are not a 'tiny' minority....they are here
(Israel).......and they are powerful.....
2) there are a bunch of 'ordinary' Israelis who think like settlers, and
make a lot of political (and actual) noise ....these people are voters -
and they voted for Sharon - even though he might be seen to be betraying
them temporarily...
3) the average 'man-on-the-street' Israeli - (Yossef Blogs as it were) -
is reasonably 'left wing' by most 'left wing' thinking
countries........the problem is that 'left wing' in Israel roughly
translates to 'wimpy wanker' in the eyes of the ones who shout the
loudest...... 



that's it...a few observations from 'the Holy Land' as it is at the
moment......not too f**king holy!!!

Pat








 

-----Original Message-----
From: gathering-bounces at misera.net [mailto:gathering-bounces at misera.net]
On Behalf Of xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:53 PM
To: gathering at misera.net
Subject: Re: [kj] kj] [OT] Jewish American Support for Dubya



Mark......You re talking bollocks.;-)

   I think you are referring to the Israeli settlers,These people make
up a tiny minority of Israels small population,Yes these are right -wing
extremists,But they dont share their  views of the majority,Indeed, this
week some of the settlers were dismissed from the army for not
dismantling their own settlements and moving back into Israel proper.The
Israeli government is, as we speak withdrawing from occupied
territory's.
    On the other hand nearly every Palestinian would like to see the
Nation of Israel destroyed.The Palestinians are the extremists
    Maybe Jews have support from western countrys because they realise
that Jews have made tremedous participation 
(I know ,crap English)     to the development of the world through the
years ,Whilst the Palestinians have not




It's not only that, but it's commonly believed -- former Congressman
Dick Armey said it out loud on national cable TV -- that one of the
prerequisites for the second coming is that Israel would own all the
land the Palestinians are currently standing on, and therefore the
Palestinians need to be kicked out so Israel can annex the West Bank
so Jesus will come back.  Naturally the Israeli far-right does not
object to more land even if it doesn't help bring the Messiah (for the
1st time by their count).

I get the impression Jesus would not get involved in disputes about
land.  "Dad, I'm not going back there -- they've missed the whole
point!"

--Mark

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:06:57 -0500, Alexander Smith
<vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Jewish Americans support President Bush because he will never let
> Israel down (regardless of what he might tell you about a "road map to
> peace").
> 
> The Bush Administration gives unilateral support to Israel -- which is
> one of the key grievances Al Qaeda et al. have with us (the other
being
> our military presence in Saudi Arabia). But, dig a little deeper:
*WHY*
> does Bush unilaterally support Israel? Because they're an arguable
> beacon of "democracy" in an otherwise theocratic region? Maybe, but
> many have suggested that it is because Bush himself is an Evangelical
> Christian, and as such believes that the emergence of a Jewish state
in
> the land promised by God to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is divinely
> ordained. Moreover, the existence of Israel is apparently essential to
> the return of Christ (y'know....if you're stupid to believe in that
> sort've thing).
> 
> It's just yet another grievous violation of the separation of Church &
> State.
> 
> Ale xin NYC
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