[kj] OT: The great Punk Debate tea sippers read ; >

[Neil Perry]

Ah jeez, I was joking! Not very funny, accepted, but
joking all the same. God I hate email sometimes
N 


--- fluwdot at earthlink.net wrote: 
> neil types<<They may have come first, but they never
>  really got it...>>
> 
> 
> got what? that the royal family is a joke... burn
> london? > whatever 
> whatever. one version of punk got it and the other
> didn't? the early 
> american punk take on things was different than the
> brits because it 
> is a different country with somewhat different
> impetus for the music. 
> so what's to get? if anything the uk's first and
> most historically 
> referenced era quickly I'mploded into a trite
> superficial fashion 
> circus mess. 
> 
> crass and the clash did well but most uk punk is
> best served as good 
> sound-track for spiky dressup pub crawling and sing
> along with your 
> mate jollys - lacking the fire of iggy and the
> stooges or mc5. hence 
> the evolution of the remarkable post punk bands -
> now that's a genre 
> where the uk really had something to offer. 
> 
> meanwhile in america, punk upped the anti (pun
> intended) and became a 
> legitimate force, bad brains, dead kennedys,
> feederz, minor threat 
> etc. etc. hell the US (link wray) started punk and
> then the 2nd wave 
> of US punk bands saved punk from the uk's glitter
> eye shadow punk 
> hype embers.
> 
> the uk just happened to catch punk at it's peak of
> popularity/hype 
> but not at it's essence. 
> 
> it's all good
> 
> 
> t
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On 18 Oct 2004 at 4:14, Neil Perry wrote:
> 
> > Yeah but Alex, I think what Rob's saying is that,
> > well, the American bands weren't really *proper*
> punk,
> > were they? They may have come first, but they
> never
> > really got it...
> > Fastening the hatches on my shelter now
> > N
> > 
> > 
> >  --- Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > "I have always seen the Ramones as an update of
> the
> > > 60's garage bands.  
> > > Great pop songs but never what I would term
> "punk"."
> > > 
> > > ROB, MY BLOOD IS BOILING. I'M GOING TO FLY OVER
> TO
> > > ENGLAND AND KILL YOU  
> > > AND BUILD A HOVERCRAFT WITH YOUR BONES AND SAIL
> BACK
> > > TO THE STATES ON  
> > > IT.
> > > 
> > > ALEX IN NYC..HELL BENT ON HOMICIDE
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 05:10 PM, Rob's
> Arse
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > That's a good point Peter.
> > > >
> > > > I have teased Alex for ages about this, but I
> have
> > > always viewed the  
> > > > Dolls as Glam. Trashy, yes but Glam.
> > > >
> > > > I have always seen the Ramones as an update of
> the
> > > 60's garage bands.  
> > > > Great pop songs but never what I would term
> > > "punk".
> > > >
> > > > Punk is much more than the music. I love the
> > > nihilism of the Pistols  
> > > > and the general "up yours" attitude. The WHY?
> > > That's why I belive that  
> > > > Punk is English.
> > > >
> > > > You American guys had a good go though. Full
> marks
> > > for effort lads ;-)
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > --- "peter.west410"
> <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: "peter.west410"
> <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> > > > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:56:59 +0100
> > > > To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> > > band!)"  
> > > > <gathering at misera.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all
> > > of it
> > > >
> > > > I think that the NY dolls were part of the
> glam
> > > movement,When exactly  
> > > > did
> > > > the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones
> > > were never more than a  
> > > > cult
> > > > band in the UK.
> > > > Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of
> > > tune band and say they
> > > > were the original punk band ,some even give
> > > examples of bands from the  
> > > > 60s
> > > > ,saying they can be classed as punk.
> > > > I think the only way to do it is to see where
> the
> > > first single which
> > > > was punk as we know it,I put in a search for
> > > "First punk single" and  
> > > > it came
> > > > up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
> > > > Right, all we have to do is find out where The
> > > Damned came from,and
> > > > that place will be where punk originated.
> > > > Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Christof hamille"
> > > <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> > > > To: <gathering at misera.net>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not
> all
> > > of it
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed Alex
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems to obvious. If you have not read or
> > > figured out that none  
> > > > of the
> > > > > punk bands in England happened until AFTER
> the
> > > Ramones toured there  
> > > > then
> > > > you
> > > > > can look at McLaren and realize that he knew
> > > NOTHING about it until  
> > > > he saw
> > > > > Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England
> > > with the infamous white  
> > > > Les
> > > > > Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones. That
> > > guitar was originally  
> > > > owned
> > > > by
> > > > > one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS.
> And
> > > along with that that  
> > > > is
> > > > > where he got the idea of the tattered
> clothing
> > > with the spray painted
> > > > > phrases on them. So no matter how you slice
> it
> > > it started in NYC. It
> > > > > exploded in England.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is all of the repeated energy I am
> putting
> > > into this
> > > > >
> 
=== message truncated ===