[kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it

Sun Oct 17 18:20:16 EDT 2004

Yes I think we agree that Punk was born out of the ashes of Glam,The seeds
were sown in the US but it was born in the UK,Like it does nt matter where
the baby was conceived ,Its were it was born that counts.
     And your reasoning is as absurd as me saying that the Brits invented
American Football because we started playing Rugby first

           PW
(More hovercraft material:-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander Smith" <vassifer at earthlink.net>
To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
<gathering at misera.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it


> Grrrrrrr.......you're determined to drag me into this, aren't you.
>
> The Ramones were the fucking *BLUEPRINT* for Punk Rock.  If there were
> no Ramones, there'd have been No Pistols, No Clash, No Damned, No
> nothing (by those bands' very own admissions, no less). Moreover,
> Malcolm McLaren -- after an abortive stint attempting to manage the
> dying New York Dolls -- basically took back to the UK his impressions
> of Richard Hell -- sonically, tonsorially and sartorially -- and
> grafted them onto what would become the Sex Pistols. "Pretty Vacant" is
> basically a shallow re-write of "Blank Generation".  Deal with it.
>
> Were the Brit bands better? Quite possibly, but had there been no
> Ramones and no Richard Hell, you'd all still be listening to Emerson
> Lake & Palmer and the Bay City Rollers.
>
> Alex in New York Fucking City.
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 04:56 PM, peter.west410 wrote:
>
> > I think that the NY dolls were part of the glam movement,When exactly
> > did
> > the Ramones first tour the UK? and the Ramones were never more than a
> > cult
> > band in the UK.
> >    Right, you can generally put any noisy, out of tune band and say
> > they
> > were the original punk band ,some even give examples of bands from the
> > 60s
> > ,saying they can be classed as punk.
> >      I think the only way to do it is to see where the first single
> > which
> > was punk as we know it,I put in a search for "First punk single" and
> > it came
> > up with"New Rose" by "The Damned".
> >      Right, all we have to do is find out where The Damned came
> > from,and
> > that place will be where punk originated.
> > Does anyone know where The Damned came from?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christof hamille" <wessidetempest at hotmail.com>
> > To: <gathering at misera.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> >
> >
> >> Agreed Alex
> >>
> >> It seems to obvious.  If you have not read or figured out that none
> >> of the
> >> punk bands in England happened until AFTER the Ramones toured there
> >> then
> > you
> >> can look at McLaren and realize that he knew NOTHING about it until
> >> he saw
> >> Richard Hell in NYC and came back to England with the infamous white
> >> Les
> >> Paul that was passed on to Steve Jones.  That guitar was originally
> >> owned
> > by
> >> one Sylvain Sylvain of the NEW YORK DOLLS.  And along with that that
> >> is
> >> where he got the idea of the tattered clothing with the spray painted
> >> phrases on them.  So no matter how you slice it it started in NYC.  It
> >> exploded in England.
> >>
> >> That is all of the repeated energy I am putting into this
> >>
> >> enjoy
> >>
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>> From: Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net>
> >>> Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> >>> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:47 -0400
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Not that it's not a compelling debate, Peter, but with Mik Raven
> >>> absent,
> > I
> >>> can't summon the stamina to get into it here again.
> >>>
> >>> I'll just cite two names to cement my point: THE RAMONES and RICHARD
> > HELL.
> >>>
> >>> Alex in NYC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 08:42 PM, peter.west410 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "As was Punk Rock".
> >>>>
> >>>> No way,It may have been conceived in NY,But it was born & breed in
> >>>> the
> >>>> UK.
> >>>>
> >>>> Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Rob's Arse" <joker at Z6.com>
> >>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >>>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:00 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I never got what they were about. Just didn't.
> >>>> I have always found them totally alien.
> >>>> Whiney brats.
> >>>>
> >>>> Saw ice Cube once too.Reading festival. So lame it was embarassing.
> >>>>
> >>>> --- Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Mark G Holt <akillingjoker at yahoo.co.uk>
> >>>> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:05:04 +0100 (BST)
> >>>> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the band!)"
> >>>> <gathering at misera.net>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [kj] OT: Fuck Hip Hop - well not all of it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> i love the beasties too, alex, for what its worth
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Alexander Smith <vassifer at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   For what it's worth, I think Eminem may indeed be clever --- BUT
> >>>> I'M
> >>>>   FUCKIN' SICK OF HIM!
> >>>>
> >>>>   Hip Hop I *DO* actually like, despite my genre-sweeping
> >>>> condemnation:
> >>>>
> >>>>   Public Enemy, Wu-Tang Clan, Busta Rhymes, Jurassic 5, Nas, (some)
> >>>>   Jay-Z, (some) Geto Boys, and I used to quite enjoy the first
> >>>> record
> > by
> >>>>   Das Efx. MC Paul Barman, incidentally, is a thousand times more
> >>>>   entertaining than Eminem. And I'll always love the Beastie Boys
> >>>>   (although they've really become a genre unto themselves).
> >>>>
> >>>>   Yeah, Hip Hop was born in NYC. As was Punk Rock. That NYC is long
> > dead
> >>>>   and gone.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Fuck KRS-One, though.
> >>>>
> >>>>   Alex in NYC
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>   On Saturday, October 16, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Mark G Holt wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> That's the Gathering...room for everyone with every opinion and
> >>>>> you're
> >>>>> entitled to yours Leigh....
> >>>>> We may not agree but w hat the hell
> >>>>>
> >>>>> cheers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Leigh Newton wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Me, that's who. Fuck Eminem. Joyless cocksucker that
> >>>>> he is.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Leigh
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- Mark G Holt wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> got to agree here
> >>>>>> straight outta compton is awesome, and who honestly
> >>>>>> doesnt either like or respect eminem?
> >>>>>> then there's the gravel pit.....it's not hip hop
> >>>>>> that's wrong. it's what some people say without
> >>>>>> thinking, i believe
> >>>>>> as for yoga etc, try taoism, it's working for me....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> cheers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> mark
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Devacor at aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>> In a message dated 10/14/2004 5:23:48 PM Eastern
> >>>>>> Daylight Time, vassifer at earthlink.net writes:
> >>>>>> KRS-One, decency zero
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If Osama Bin Laden ever buy s a rap album, he'll
> >>>>>> probably start with a
> >>>>>> CD by KRS-One.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The hip-hop anarchist has declared his solidarity
> >>>>>> with Al Qaeda by
> >>>>>> asserting that he and other African-Americans
> >>>>>> "cheered when 9/11
> >>>>>> happened."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The rapper, whose real name is Kris Parker, defiled
> >>>>>> the memory of those
> >>>>>> who died in the terrorist attacks as he spouted off
> >>>>>> at a recent New
> >>>>>> Yorker Festival panel discussion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I was always let down by KRS- he actually was raised
> >>>>>> by parents who were trained in mystic yoga and he
> >>>>>> was brought up that way. He named was actually
> >>>>>> Krishna, which he changed to kris and "KRS" - he has
> >>>>>> a lot of insight but wound up just getting
> >>>>>> sidetracked by sentiment.
> >>>>>> I recently just rebought the first NWA "Straight
> >>>>>> ou tta Compton"- its great. I remember my jaw dropped
> >>>>>> when I heard it when it first came out. It just came
> >>>>>> outta nowhere and nothing has ever come close.
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> &g t; Gathering mailing list
> >>>>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------------------------------
> >>>>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> >>>>>> more fun! >
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Gathering mailing list
> >>>>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________
> >>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>>> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> >>>>> http://vote.yahoo.com
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Gathering mailing list
> >>>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Gathering mailing list
> >>>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>   _______________________________________________
> >>>>   Gathering mailing list
> >>>>   Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>   http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ---
> >>>> -----
> >>>> ----
> >>>> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ---
> >>>> -----
> >>>> ----
> >>>> Free email at www.Z6.com ( and home of worldmap.com)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ---
> >>>> -----
> >>>> ----
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Gathering mailing list
> >>>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> ---
> >>>> -----
> >>>> ----
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Gathering mailing list
> >>>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Gathering mailing list
> >>>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Gathering mailing list
> >>> Gathering at misera.net
> >>> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
> >> FREE!
> >> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gathering mailing list
> >> Gathering at misera.net
> >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gathering mailing list
> > Gathering at misera.net
> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gathering mailing list
> Gathering at misera.net
> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering