[kj] Crowley/Coleman/Gurdjieff/Zola

Djehuti111 djehuti111 at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 15 18:36:33 EDT 2004 

Greetings Peter,

--- "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> Greeting  mysterious DJ Hute,

 You can call me "Aleph" if you like...

>        My post was nt directed at you ,just a
> general observation.

 I just dislike being lumped in with the rest of the
herd.
 I'm sure you understand.

 "Mystery is the great enemy of truth".

 I was merely trying to debunk some of your admittedly
uninformed opinions.

>     I was nt trying to be offensive(Not trying ,it
> seems to come
> naturally).As Im completely unoffendable and
> bullet-proof,I assume everyone
> else is,something I must address.

 I'd like to think that we'll ALL be there one day.

>       Im ignorant about Al Crowley because I brought
> his book and on the
> first page it said "Don't read this
> book"...................So I did
> nt...........gave it to a charity shop.

 Crowley's warning was enough to keep you from delving
in any further.

  Granted, he isn't for everybody, but I hope that
you'll let those of us that actually do bother to make
it past the first page have our opinions too.

>     The reason people are interested in occult
> themes is(IMO);The human body
> is slow in evolving,Your human brains are too big to
> deal with normal day to
> day living  i.e keeping warm, eating food etc
> etc,But they are not big or
> evolved enough to comprehend the workings of the
> world ,as we (dont) know
> it,So until we are enlightened and know the true
> way,you make up things like
> religion and occultism,

 So noted.
 My opinion is that perhaps our (limited) intellects
aren't the only source that we should be culling
information from and that it's impossible to
rationalize and explain away every aspect of nature at
this point in our development as a "species".

 What "science" can't rationally explain away (Like
the fact that the earth really IS round, which was
considered heresy at it's first announcement after all
wasn't it?) it dismisses as superstition, or
supernatural, or somehow occult.

 "Occult" BTW, merely means "hidden".

 It's often said that the Magick of one age is the
Science of the next.

 I've never understood how someone can think that they
simply have ALL the answers. ;)

>It will do for the
> time-being,It was only a few
> hundred years ago that people could nt comprehend
> the world being round.
> 
> P.SJaz did nt write many lyrics(So i ve been
> told)most of the early stuff
> was penned by BPF

 I know that BPF was certainly a contributer to a lot
of the early lyrics, but you've completely missed the
original point here.
 The point was that was that people might be 
initially drawn to Killing Joke via their music and
not the necessarily the lyrical content.

> P.P.S I dont think the word unintelligent is at all
> offensive,Some people
> are fat some are thin, some are clever some are
> thick,Its just the way
> people are.

 I don't feel that I should be lumped in with all the
(In your opinion) unintelligent peoples of the world,
and was simply pointing out that making blanket
statements is an unintelligent way to go through life.
;)

> Everyones different,If everyone stopped
> trying to be what they re
> not and excepted the way they are ,everyone would be
> alot more content.

 At least they wouldn't feel the need to meddle in
other peoples affairs, or think that their opinions
should matter to anyone other than themselves, just
like mine. 

>  And the magic number is 25 (GZ)

 Heh,
 "Every number is infinite, there is no difference."

 Aleph


> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Djehuti111" <djehuti111 at yahoo.com>
> To: "A list about all things Killing Joke (the
> band!)"
> <gathering at misera.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [kj] Crowley/Coleman/Gurdjieff
> 
> 
> > Greetings Peter,
> >
> > --- "peter.west410" <peter.west410 at ntlworld.com>
> > wrote:
> > > "but I fear I shall never really
> > > understand what he was all about"
> > >      I don't really know what I'm talking about
> > > (When it comes to
> > > Crowley),But As with most Cults ,Its usually
> > > intelligent people,leading the
> > > unintelligent people.
> >
> >  Well, we're off to a good start.
> >
> >  You have no idea who I am, or anything about me
> but
> > you've already summed up that I may be
> unintelligent.
> >
> >  It's a shame when someone opens a discussion with
> the
> > line "I don't really know what I'm talking about
> When
> > it comes to..." and they still feel the need to
> voice
> > their (admittedly lacking) opinion while
> > simultaneously insulting others as
> "unintelligent".
> >
> >  Careful, that type of logic is dangerous and it
> cuts
> > both ways. ;)
> >
> > > The leaders offer some kind of
> > > answers which the
> > > followers are in awe of,To a certain extent
> killing
> > > joke do the same.
> >
> >  I'd say that perhaps people who listen to Killing
> > Joke might do so for the music at least as much as
> the
> > lyrics, wouldn't you?
> >
> >  Was it Jaz's lyrics that first attracted you to
> the
> > group?
> >
> > >     Once you are under their spell you stay
> > > there,They usually offer some
> > > kind of mystical bollocks,which lost souls tend
> to
> > > follow.
> >
> >  Now, I'm a lost soul and I worship bollocks too.
> :(
> >
> > >    Religious groups do this, the
> > > Moonies,freemasons,Christians ,Muslims etc
> > > etc..People join because they think if they are
> a
> > > member and pay into it
> > > ,some of the mystical powers may rub off on
> them(Pay
> > > being the operative
> > > word).
> >
> >  You seem to be an authority on making blanket
> > statements condemning other peoples beliefs and/or
> > lifestyles without actually doing much research
> into
> > either the people you're condemning or the subject
> at
> > hand.
> >
> >  You also seem to think that your opinion should
> > matter to someone other than yourself.
> >
> >  But, I don't really know what I'm talking about
> > when it comes to Peter West. ;)
> >
> >  Much Love,
> >
> >  Aleph
> >
> >
> >
> > >       On a lighter note ,I received one of those
> > > "Congratulations you ve
> > > just won a million dollars" E-mails.I replied
> > > ,wondering exactly how the
> > > scam works,If anybody wants to see the on-going
> > > exchanges,let me know and I
> > > ll post them up.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "god botherer" <acroastic at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <gathering at misera.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:01 PM
> > > Subject: [kj] Crowley/Coleman/Gurdjieff
> > >
> > >
> > > > I became very interested in Crowley many years
> > > ago. I read Liber 777, The
> > > > Book Of The Law, Aha, etc. and learned a lot.
> I
> > > also read about Crowley's
> > > > participation in the Golden Dawn and beyond. I
> > > recognised that he must
> > > have
> > > > been an extraordinary man - highly
> intelligent,
> > > gifted, extremely
> > > > knowledgeable, but I also learned of the many
> > > wounded people - even dead
> > > > people - he left in his wake, and I found that
> I
> > > could not accept some of
> > > > his practices. I also questioned where
> following
> > > the labyrinthine path
> > > down
> > > > which studying the correspondences and
> Gematria
> > > was actually leading me.
> > > >
> > > > So many people have warned against reading The
> > > Book Of The Law - including
> > > > Crowley himself - that it can not be paranoid
> > > superstition to refer to
> > > such
> > > > admonitions. As for Gurdjieff recognising
> > > something unclean in Crowley, I
> > > am
> > > > merely paraphrasing Bennett's autobiography.
> > > >
> > > > Let's be cool.
> > > >
> > > > I do not regard myself as qualified to judge
> > > Crowley - or indeed
> > > Gurdjieff.
> > > > Both men were vastly superior to me in all
> sorts
> > > of ways. But if someone
> > > of
> > > > Gurdjieff's standing took the angle he did on
> > > Crowley then I have to take
> > > > note.
> > > >
> > > > And what is one to make of Jaz's branding of
> > > Crowley as 'a very dubious
> > > > character'? This from someone who went into
> > > Crowley fairly deeply, I
> > > > believe.
> > > >
> > > > The case remains open for me on Crowley, but I
> > > fear I shall never really
> > > > understand what he was all about. And is it
> all
> > > that important anyway?
> > > >
> > > > As for the Buddha, I sense that following his
> > > teachings is more likely to
> > > > bring me to happiness and make the world a
> better
> > > place than following
> > > > Crowley's 'way' (whatever that is) will.
> > > >
> > > > I am ready to listen to anybody who can shed
> light
> > > for me on why Crowley
> > > > deserves uncritical admiration. I would
> genuinely
> > > welcome an attempt to
> > > > defend Crowley on a moral basis.
> > > >
> > > > There is more that unites us than divides us
> so
> > > let's not fall out.
> > > >
> > > > Si
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Djehuti111 <djehuti111 at yahoo.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: "A list about all things Killing
> Joke
> > > (the band!)"
> > > > ><gathering at misera.net>
> > > > >To: "A list about all things Killing Joke
> (the
> > > band!)"
> > > > ><gathering at misera.net>
> > > > >Subject: RE: [kj] Crowley/Coleman
> > > > >Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:18:03 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Greetings Lexi,
> > > > >
> > > > >--- Alexi Hamilton <alexih at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >    Awwww...Nicholas, you just might bring
> the
> > > ever
> > > > >elusive Aleph out of hiding with this one...
> > > > >
> > > > >  Nah, I'm not going to waste my time with
> > > opinionated
> > > > >rubbish, ("Clearly, he recognised that which
> was
> > > > >unclean in Crowley and didn't want him near
> his
> > > > >students any more.") or paranoid superstition
> (
> > > "And
> > > > >by the way, reading The Book of the Law might
> not
> > > be a
> > > > >great idea.").
> > > > >
> > > > >  And I'm certainly not going to let one of
> the
> > > most
> > > > >imbalanced "buddhists" to ever snipe from
> behind
> > > a PC
> > > > >get my Goat.
> > > > >
> > > > >("crowley was a twat who completely wasted
> the
> > > > >insights he had.")
> > > > >
> > > > >  Talk about the pot calling the kettle
> black! ;)
> > > > >
> > > > >  I'll just scrape it off my shoes and ignore
> the
> > > > >stench.
> > > > >
> > > > >  XoXoX
> > > > >  Aleph
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >~Alexi
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >=====
> > > > >"The scene was wild and somewhat sinister.
> The
> > > > >darkness, the palms, the mountainous
> background,
> > > the
> > > > >silent lake below, the impenetrable canopy of
> > > space,
> > > > >studded with secretive and significant stars,
> > > formed a
> > > > >stupendous setting for the savage noise and
> blaze
> > > of
> > > > >the ceremony."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >__________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > "The scene was wild and somewhat sinister. The
> > darkness, the palms, the mountainous background,
> the
> > silent lake below, the impenetrable canopy of
> space,
> > studded with secretive and significant stars,
> formed a
> > stupendous setting for the savage noise and blaze
> of
> > the ceremony."
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We
> finish.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gathering mailing list
> > Gathering at misera.net
> >
> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gathering mailing list
> Gathering at misera.net
> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> 


=====
"The scene was wild and somewhat sinister. The
darkness, the palms, the mountainous background, the
silent lake below, the impenetrable canopy of space,
studded with secretive and significant stars, formed a
stupendous setting for the savage noise and blaze of
the ceremony."


	
		
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