[kj] OT: R.Kelly Likens Self to Bin Laden..
sade1
gathering@misera.net
Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:20:02 -0700 (PDT)
Yes, it did. Roman Polanski, Hillary Clinton and Pat Buchanan are
scheduled for tomorrow's conference.
Moderating the event be Arnold "we all took turns with her
upstairs" Schwarzenegger.
> Christ on a crutch,
they really did use
the wood for the Fire.
Saul
--- Alex Smith <vassifer@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Christ on a crutch, did this thread ever take off!
>
> Posting the link in the first place was only my way of saying: "Isn't
> R.Kelly a fuckin' jackass?" I didn't think it'd morph into a seminar on
> gender roles in society. Go firure.
>
> Alex in NYC
>
>
> ----------
> >From: sade1 <saulomar1@yahoo.com>
> >To: gathering@misera.net
> >Subject: Re: [kj] OT: R.Kelly Likens Self to Bin Laden..
> >Date: Tue, Sep 16, 2003, 8:51 PM
> >
>
> >If only everyone had your level of awareness on this. But I'd
> >found a lot of ambiguity in articles and papers on how people
> >perceive this issue because the way we arrive at the consent-age
> >is very arbitrary. And a lot of people out there try to exploit that
> >ambiguity in large part to convince themselves, in their own minds,
> >that, "but it's OK, if like this or like that."
> >We need to define legal-age in a way more relevant to people's
> >maturity levels, maybe more than one age -- any volunteers for
> >raising it back? Doubt it.
> >
> >Do you mean risk-free, as in no pregnancy or disease? Even so,
> >I dont think 15year-olds are anywhere NEAR ready to start. The
> >emotions for BOTH are overwhelming and the warping you do to your
> >self by pretending it's no big deal is very rough on both--hence
> >the deep burial or denial of said feelings or of their true
> >importance. Subsequent misperceptions on the other person's actions
> >can lead to distorted/devaluing judgement of the opposite sex.
> >
> >Maybe guys are better able to pull this off but, as
> >women are usually more aware of, feelings are feelings and the
> >wear n' tear still ricochets inside both. We(the guys) just go
> >off and act it out in any way that makes us look "bad-ass" and
> >macho(grunt grunt), but that's all Bull.
> >
> >Saul
> >
> >P.S. Hey, didn't this thread originally start off as,
> > "R.Kelly Likens Self to Bin Laden"? then Al-Q...then....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Amy Moseley Rupp <amyr@jump.net> wrote:
> >> > HOW MANY people follow these laws of consent out of an actual
> >> > sense of morality?
> >>
> >> Because there's a huge difference between two people in
> >> a committed relationship, no matter what their ages, and
> >> a one-nighter. With a one-nighter, if both parties are
> >> overage, we might raise our eyebrows about the wisdom and
> >> morality of such an act; but with a one-nighter between
> >> an underaged person and an overaged person, we say, and
> >> rightfully so, that the overaged person should have known
> >> better and not subjected the underaged person to the
> >> very real risks of sex. If it was truly risk-free, it'd
> >> be an entirely different story: but it isn't. We would
> >> like to pretend it is, because it *is* enjoyable: but just
> >> like it's a primal force, it causes feelings of attachment
> >> from one person to another, and .... pregnancy! We can
> >> try to defeat procreation, and win most of the time, but it
> >> is hard to defeat millions of years of evolution. Most
> >> young girls and women have sex because they feel *attached*
> >> to a guy -- they want to make a connection, an emotionally
> >> deep one as well as a physically deep one. Unfortunately,
> >> that's not reciprocated by most young males.
> >>
> >> The rules we follow regarding sexual age-of-consent have
> >> a *lot* to do with the age of female reproductive ability.
> >> It truly used to *be* more like 16. Now, with a higher
> >> fat diet, it can be as low as *10*. We've therefore extended
> >> the outward sexual maturity of the female body, and the
> >> ability to get pregnant, to far younger ages than ever before.
> >>
> >> We want to protect our children (of both sexes) from pedophiles,
> >> and we want society to protect them somewhat from being
> >> taken advantage of -- for example, there are many jobs a "child"
> >> under 18 cannot work, if they are deemed hazardous. I was in
> >> one of them, and they thought I was 18 cos I'd graduated high
> >> school. Boy did they freak out when I casually mentioned I
> >> was 17 ;-) if anything had happened to me, my parents coulda
> >> sued the shit out of them and won. And that's another part
> >> of the equation. Parents are *really* going to protect their
> >> children, and I guarantee if you diddle most 15-year-old girls,
> >> and their parents find out about it, they'll come after you.
> >>
> >> As to the right of a 15-year-old to express themselves
> >> sexually: they have that right. Nobody goes after the
> >> 15-year-old. They go after an overaged person. That 15-year-old
> >> can experiment to his or her heart's content with a like-aged
> >> person. Two 15-year-olds? Okay, they are mutually experimenting.
> >> But a sexually mature and experienced older person, with a 15-year-
> >> old? What is that older person looking for? obviously they
> >> don't need to experiment, and they aren't looking for a long-term
> >> relationship in most cases, because a 15-year-old is simply too
> >> young for that. Two inexperienced 15-year-olds are also
> >> less likely to give each other a disease.
> >>
> >> This is waaaaaaay more than I probably should say on the subject,
> >> but I *am* making an attempt to explain my feelings. I remember
> >> very well what it was like to be a teen: both from the wanting-to-
> >> have-sex role and the feeling of exploitation. I'm a mother of
> >> two daughters, and frankly, if there was some hot 17-year-old
> >> guy I wanted to go after, I jolly well could wait until he was 18 ;-)
> >>
> >> --Amy
> >> >
> >> > Now, that texan father would still draw his gun(yay!) b/c his
> >> > daughter still got used, then kick her ass for consenting to sex
> >> > with that 22-year-old married military man in Her Majesty's
> >> > Forces, but not because she was raped. (Because he's 22? married?
> >> > military? a man? British?)
> >> > Because he'd have rationalized(the country too)long ago that 15
> >> > wouldn't be considered rape.
> >> >
> >> > Something similar happens nowadays with prostitution being legal
> >> > outside of Las Vegas. If a 'john' doesn't pay, he's accused of
> >> > robbery, but not for solicitation, or the girl for prostitution,
> >> > or the madam for "madaming", or the guy who spritzes the girls
> >> > down B4 each gig for complicity or similar. Because their 'take'
> >> > on it is that those activities, given an appropriate context and
> >> > (though grudging) acceptance, are not illegal.
> >> > So what defines a person being competent for sex?
> >> > Age? we Gotta do better than that.
> >> >
> >> > PP.SS. (looking for a woman's perspective)
> >> > As opposed to the phrase, "she WAS raped"**,
> >> > does the phrase "she GOT raped" somehow feel like it's
> >> > implying the woman had somehow 'caused' her being victimized?
> >> >
> >> > Saul
> >> >
> >> > --- Amy Moseley <amyr@jump.net> wrote:
> >> > > Quoting Jester <webmaster@killing-joke.com>:
> >> > >
> >> > > > > In the US it's 18.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > No it is not. It varies from state to state. Here in Texas, the age of
> >> > > > consent is 17 for both males and females, and affirmative defense is 14.
> >> > >
> >> > > You're correct, and in Texas we can also execute 17-year-olds, but
> >> > > they can't vote. Affirmative defense is a laugh. Again, the over-18-
> >> > > year-old oughtta know better. Lowering the age for "sexually active"
> >> > > individuals is like saying rape isn't rape if the girl was slutty.
> >> > >
> >> > > Let's put it this way: if a 15-year-old Texas girl went to the UK
> >> > > on a school trip, and got shagged by a 22-year-old married military
> >> > > man, you *know* many Texans would feel her father justified in
> >> > > taking a shotgun over there! It's not about just being a prude:
> >> > > it's about disease and pregnancy. What if said 15-year-old had
> >> > > gotten pregnant? Would've been pretty hard to marry her given
> >> > > he was already married!
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -------------------------------------------------
> >> > > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Gathering mailing list
> >> > > Gathering@misera.net
> >> > > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________
> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >> > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Gathering mailing list
> >> > Gathering@misera.net
> >> > http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gathering mailing list
> >> Gathering@misera.net
> >> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >Gathering mailing list
> >Gathering@misera.net
> >http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
> _______________________________________________
> Gathering mailing list
> Gathering@misera.net
> http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/gathering
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com