[kj] OT: R.Kelly Likens Self to Bin Laden

[Mark Kolmar]

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Amy Moseley wrote:

> I was lightyears different at 22 than at 15.  I held a professional
> degree and had multiple job offers at 22.  I'd learned to support
> myself fully and had had years of experience with all sorts of
> responsibility.

I already conceded these points.  We all continue to grow and develop.  I
am much further along in my career now than when I was 23-24.  That's
about the time I started to be fully independent financially, but that is
one measure.  (I got out of college with a liberal arts degree in the
middle of the Bush #41 recession....)  That is what I meant when I said by
that standard childhood wouldn't end until your 30s.

> At 15 I couldn't even legally drive a *car* without someone over 18
> in the driver's seat.

Several states in the U.S. allow full licenses at 14 and 15.  Driving,
voting, and drinking ages have a lot more to do with privileges granted to
you, as opposed to what you would be able to handle responsibly if society
weren't treating you like a helpless baby.

My first night out with the guys at college, when I was 17, we went out
drinking.  I was used to alcohol as a normal thing at a family dinner and
such (I'm 1st-generation German-American).  I had 2 or 3 beers.

> No, a 15-year-old is not a baby, but s/he has to answer to his/her
> parents.  Surely you would not argue that a 15-year-old has the right to
> override his/her parents, would you?

In many practical ways, they can override their parents.  The parents
recognize that and are scared.  One bit of leverage the parents have is
that the rest of the society won't really give the 15yo the tools to be
legitimately independent even if they were capable.  But that combination
is very dangerous.  That leaves the kids that age as sort of an angry
underclass, which IMO is most of the problem.

I could tell you some pretty personal real-life examples to illustrate
what I'm saying here.  But I would have to get into more detail than might
be appropriate for this list.

--Mark