[kj] Anti-Climax interview - February 1981
Sun, 25 May 2003 21:57:38 +0100
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Here's another old fanzine dug out and faithfully transcribed for your
pleasure - full of the same old Jaz ranting, complete with the usual
contradictions and "crying wolf" but often entertaining and enlightening as
ANTI-CLIMAX fanzine No.8 (February 1981 - Ipswich, UK)
JAZ : Listen, what I'm into isn't hip by your standards - my beliefs, but I
don't give a shit about that.
GEORDIE : Don't believe a word he says !
GABBY (AC) : I didn't know you had any standards.
JAZ : No but ... when you get people doing fanzines, you always get - this
is no offence right - Crass or whatever painted on their backs - I mean
these people do fanzines.
GABBY : Yeah, but these people .....
JAZ : Yeah, I know him, I've talked to him, he's alright. But they do don't
they, and they have what's cool and what's not cool whether you like it or
not, you know, being the punk, Sid Vicious etc and all that shit. Well I've
got nothing to do with all that. We play music that reflects pressure,
because that's what I feel, I'm a very intense person. I'm no punk myself,
don't get any illusions about it.
AC : It depends on your definition of punk. If you think a punk is someone
who wears a Sid Vicious t-shirt etc. That sort of punk is like the music
paper mail order person - it's all the same whether you're wearing Judas
Priest or Sid Vicious. Okay, so tell us what you as a group are trying to
achieve, if anything.
JAZ : Not a lot. Good times on stage.
YOUTH : It's not something you think about like that - you just do it.
JAZ : Individually we try to achieve different things.
AC : So there's no great idea behind the band, you're working as individuals
YOUTH : That forms the band - the four individual ideas.
AC : When you first started did you find it difficult to get accepted by the
people who went to your gigs ?
JAZ : We found it difficult, yes. People either like you or they don't and
we play for the people who like us.
AC : Yeah, obviously, but if you didn't get more people liking you then you
wouldn't be able to carry on.
JAZ : "More people" is selling records - the more records you sell, the more
people you get at a gig.
AC : Do you prefer doing gigs as a live band, or making records ?
JAZ : The gigs we do, which might be one in a month or four in a month,
those gigs are events. If you gig every week, it's not an event any more, it
becomes a routine and you're back to square one. So we just have a few gigs
and put all our energy into them.
YOUTH : Even so, out of all the gigs we've done, only a few have turned out
how we wanted them to.
JAZ : Yeah, I mean you're confronted with a load of wankers half the time,
which doesn't make us feel happy so we don't play well. It's the records
that make the money.
AC : How did you start to be self-sufficient as a group, where did the money
come from ?
JAZ : By being nasty and screwing as much money out of every bastard we
AC : What about Island ?
JAZ : They served their purpose.
YOUTH : We never signed to Island, all we did was sold them the 3 tracks on
the 10". We didn't even sell them the rights. They don't own the songs, just
the recordings. We sold them to make people aware that we existed. Island
put ads in the paper and all that.
JAZ : That was fuck all. They did what we wanted - got the name out.
AC : Did they think that ultimately you would sign for them ?
YOUTH : They tried to put a few dirty deeds in the contract .....
JAZ : But we got it checked over. They're all bastards, you've just got to
rip them off. It gave us enough money to bring out the next single.
YOUTH : The money we get we don't spend on ourselves, it goes into the band.
JAZ : We're here now (mixing the album) and that's in a period of about 8
months. In another 8 months we're really going to start doing things.
AC : Do you prefer having your own label as an ideal ?
YOUTH : It's not an ideal, it's just a logical assumption, you've got
complete control. It doesn't matter if you're a band that haven't got any
ideas and like people to do it for you. You've got to do it yourself if you
want it to work.
JAZ : It is an ideal in one way. We do it so we can control all our artwork,
money and everything, so we set up our own company. It's funny if you think
about it. Money talks and the only way to do it is to use it. Use the
environment, 'cos they use you.
YOUTH : The only way is to survive. If you don't, you're a mug. You've got
to rip people off before they rip you off.
AC : Yeah, but who do you want to rip off ?
JAZ : You don't want to rip off your tribe do you ! There's a distinction -
Marks & Spencer's, Woolworth's, you know, the norm, the establishment if you
like. You don't rip off a mate. (laughs) Depends what they're like, then
again. Basic morals.
The Killing Joke is more than just a band. We're going to get twice as far
as we have done in a short amount of time. And yes, we want to go on Top Of
The Pops, the lot. Imagine that cunt grinning and saying this is so and so
by Killing Joke ! I mean we couldn't be popstars if we wanted to. It's
religion. That's something I really want to stir up. I know what I'm talking
about there. The church is a fucking joke. I'm into what's beyond that. The
occult if you like.
AC : What exactly do you mean when you say you want to get a tribal feel to
your music ?
JAZ : We live in a tribe. We've got an alternative reaction to the whole
thing. Listen, I know Steve Jones, Paul Cook and Rotten. I know what they're
like. It's shite. I go for personalities. The way they play their lives is
just as important as the way they play their instruments.
AC : But people like that are just living it out as superstars.
JAZ : Cook is alright. He's got time for you. It's Siouxsie, Severin and
Jobson who go to all the hip little parties around London.
AC : So you're opposed to the whole aura of the 'rock scene' ?
JAZ : Of course I'm fucking opposed to it ! Don't you think it's funny that
people like us can be in a studio like this. They hate it, the idea that a
grotty little turd like me could get anywhere near what they're doing. I
hate the music business. I like the scene you guys are into - small bands.
We went through a lot of shit getting where we are now. We approach things
from a different angle, it might seems a bit unreal to you. We're playing
with something completely different.
AC : Don't you think you're in danger of becoming a hip band ?
JAZ : Well that would just be funny !
AC : I think it's expected. It's already happening to a certain extent.
Killing Joke are the 'new in thing man'.
JAZ : We don't play for those cunts. We've got quite a faithful tribe of
idiots who follow us about to all our gigs. We want to make the most of what
AC : But I think that already you're becoming one of the new "in" punk rock
JAZ Well that's just ignorance isn't it because we don't play 'punk rock',
we just reflect what's happening and endeavour
to be honest with ourselves. You can either be a shitty little band doing
the circuits week in, week out, for the rest of your life or you can go
through the mangle. The choice is yours.
* * * * *
JAZ : When you're recording you've got to capture the atmosphere, as long as
it makes you react to it. I don't mind being in the studio, but I do like
AC : How did you get your name ?
JAZ : You can apply the killing joke to everything. Imagine a soldier in the
trenches in WW1. He's just been told to run over and gain another, say, 15ft
of land and he knows he's going to die, and he suddenly thinks that there's
some cunt back in Westminster controlling his life, and he feels a bit of a
mug. That feeling is the killing joke. You can relate that to yourselves,
because that's what's happening to you. In 3 or 4 years something is going
to happen, the Earth will react. You pump the Earth full of shit and in the
end it's going to throw up, whether it's an atom bomb or an earthquake.
You've got to go down to your roots, you've got to know why it's happening.
You can't take any religion seriously these days. Your instincts tell you
it's lies. It's all changing, you know what happens every 2,000 years, the
last 2,000 have been the age of Pisces, now we're moving into Aquarius. I
know, because I worked with the church believe it or not. That's my personal
interest. I'm not interested in religion, I'm interested in fact.
GABBY : It seems a good idea for why we exist.
JAZ : Exactly. Most people, they'll know how a motor car engine works, but
they don't know why their heart is ticking. What do you want to call it, God
? There's more to it than that. I call it the life force. I don't see life
represented in the body.
AC : Why do you think we're alive then ?
JAZ : You want to go that deep ?
AC : Why not ? Instead of asking what your next single is.
JAZ : The big reason. Why should I tell you ? All I will tell you , when I
was with the church, I saw the altar frontals and related the colours they
had to the time of the year, and it related to the Zodiac, which is split up
into Fire, Air, Earth and Water. I looked further into it and the facts come
from before Christianity. That's what I'm interested in. You know the
Freemasons right ? They're all rich bastards, high society. They use a form
of the occult, the sun, moon and symbols but they're the people who
originally planned the whole layout of the church. What is behind it is
Paganism, which is like my belief. That is the killing joke, to know that
established religion has all been clouded, the truth's not there.
AC : What exactly do you mean by the occult ?
JAZ : The science of religion, the natural powers.
AC : What about Gemini's not getting on with Scorpio's, and that kind of
JAZ : That's a load of bollocks, you can get on with any fucker. The proof
of that is in the band. All that the Zodiac is, is measuring where nature
was when you were born. The sun and moon influence the pattern. The moon
influences the water and as we're 90% water therefore it influences us. I'm
on about the absolute science, that's what I believe in and I don't give a
shit whether it's hip or not. I'm sticking by my roots, that's Killing Joke,
that's one of the aspects we're about.
AC : So you're going a lot deeper than just being a rock band making music ?
JAZ : Yeah, you've got to have your roots.
AC : What about the other members of the band, what are their views on it ?
JAZ : That is the whole reason for the band. We're very different people.
Youth is a very earthy character, he like getting pissed and shagging women.
I mean we all do. The Church says you mustn't.
GABBY : Don't you think you're being restrained by the fact that you are a
rock band ?
JAZ : We're doing what comes naturally to us. We are using our environment.
The planet uranus and pluto - uranium and plutonium which make atomic bombs.
It's all related - look and find the facts.
AC : But they're just related names !
JAZ : But the facts of science are behind it. Look into it yourself. That is
why there's going to be a lot of mass change in the next 3 years. It's going
to affect you, so you've got to know why it's going to happen. Forget the
Sex Pistols and what they said. We're about something completely different.,
which has been bugging me for a long time. The Killing Joke is a state of
mind of being aware of what is going on about you.
*** THE END ***
The relevant pages have also been scanned & are available at the following
(NB. They are about 200Kb+ each)
* http://home.clara.net/antoni/ *